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Old 06-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Mama Beth's Avatar
Mama Beth Mama Beth is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7
Default Science Diet to Black Gold

So yesterday after I signed up I spent a bit of time reading around the forums and I am learning a lot. A post on Science Diet got me searching and what I read prompted me to seek out Canidae for pricing to bring a report back to my husband.

Puppy is 5 months old and when we got him at 2 1/2 months he was on IAMS. The 5 hour trip home was terrible, as he was extremely gassy, stinky and had very flakey skin that I assumed was to the special allergy shampoo that they had the pup on due to her previous owner's allergies.

So my husband switched him to Science Diet, which as far as gas goes is much better and a normal shampoo which as long as he gets a bath every 3 weeks, he doesn't get too flakey.

Now my reading has said that a lot of that may be due to what he's eating and there is no denying the ingredients between Science Diet and Canidae.

Hubby has picked up some sample bags of a dog food called Black Gold that puppy just loves so much better than Science Diet. But when reading the ingredients I have to think that it's not much better, if at all.

Black Gold Premium Dog Food
Meat Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Wheat, Corn Gluten Meal, Poultry Fat (Preserved with BHA, Citric Acid and Mixed Tocopherols-Source of Vitamin E), Chicken-By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Poultry Flavoring, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Sodium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B 12 Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitaming B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (Vitamin K), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate and Folic Acid.

The Canidae is $4 more for a 40 lb bag than what he would pay for a 50 lb bag of the Black Gold. How do I convince him to give the Canidae a try? I have a feeling that he and I both will be pleasantly suprised in the difference it will make in puppy. Less poop? Less baths? Better looking coat, etc. Plus, I have candidiasis (which is an overabundance of Candida in the intestines which is one of the leading causes of stomach cancer and the things that I can't have are sugar, yeast, corn products, wheat, etc. because of the presence of mycotoxins and other fungal problems that these types of food have). It makes it easy to understand that these things would be just as bad for my dog and cause cancer in him.

Mine was created from years of antibiotics which destroyed the good flora in my stomach and allowed the Candida albicans to take over.

I tried talking to him about it last night and there is only 2 places in town that have the Canidae. One place is way more expensive than the other place but the cheaper place is a pet store that my husband does not like. I swear it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes. I showed him the difference in ingredients, but he tends to tune me out a lot. His personality type is to keep conversation short, and to the point.

Also, while at the store, I was looking for the Canidae to price and a sales lady came over and asked if I needed help. I just told her I wanted to see the price of a large bag of Canidae. She then directed me to their Pro Pac and tried to sell me on that, saying that it was the same thing as Canidae, only cheaper, etc. etc. I took a brochure to shut her up, but when I was looking at it at home, here are the ingredients:

Pro Pac Superpremium Dog Food
Performance Puppy
Chicken Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavoring, Flaxseed, Yeast Culture, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine Hydroxyanalogue, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Zinc Proteinate, Manganous Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Proteinate

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, not less than 30.00%
Crude Fath, not less than 20.00%
Crude Fiber, not more than 4.00%
Moisture, not more than 10.00%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids, not less than 3.30%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids, not less than 0.55%
joined our family March 2007 at 2 1/2 months old

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Old 06-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Herschel Herschel is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Central Illinois
Posts: 3,303

I'm going to start this out by ranking the foods you listed in terms of ingredient quality:

Canidae > Pro Pac > Science Diet > Black Gold

Oddly enough, you might be better off on Science Diet than you will be on Black Gold.

Strictly in terms of usable calories:

Canidae has 1875 kcal per pound
Pro Pac has ________ kcal per pound (Can't find the information)
Science Diet has 1725 kcal per pound
Black Gold has 1711 kcal per pound

A good standard to judge a dog food is to look at the first 5 ingredients. For this comparison, we will just look at the first 2 ingredients because they make up most of the food:

Canidae has Chicken Meal and Turkey Meal (The "meal" is better than "Chicken" or "Turkey")
Pro Pac has Chicken Meal and Ground Yellow Corn
Science Diet has Ground Whole Grain Corn and Chicken By-Product Meal
Black Gold has Meal Meal and Corn Meal

Based on those ingredients, Canidae has far better ingredients than the other foods. Corn can be a common allergen and sometimes has little nutritional value. An animal-based protein source is best.

To determine the best value:

Using the numbers of kcal/lb listed above, calculate the total number of calories available in each bag of dog food. (For example, a 40lb bag of Canidae has 1875kcal x 40lbs = 75,000 kcal.)

Then, calculate the number of calories you get per dollar by dividing the total number of calories in the bag over the total number of dollars you spend. (For example, if a 40lb bag of Canidae costs $40, then you get 75,00kcal/$40, or 1875kcal per dollar.)
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Old 06-07-2007, 04:51 PM
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skyeboxer skyeboxer is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spain
Posts: 920

I only started really thinking about dog food after coming to this and other dog food forums too. I don't know enough myself to comment though I'd respect Herschel's advice on anything.

My input is on the other side of your question - how to convince hubby? According to what I've so far discovered on the cheaper well known brand vs quality more expensive premium debate, when you switch to a really good food you are cutting out the fillers and additives.

What your dog is then getting is what he actually needs meaning you need to feed in smaller quantities. So, you cannot compare a larger bag of poor quality dog food with a smaller food of good quality because your dog will go through so much of the bad quality just to achieve necessary nutrition from it.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:05 PM
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noludoru noludoru is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 17,826

The Black Gold looks way worse than Science Diet--depending upon which SD you were feeding.

Meat Meal: comes form unspecified animals of unknown sources, could be 4D, could include eithanized animals, roadkill, flea collars, bags they put dead animals into etc etc.

Corn Meal: Not good. Definitely not good quality.

Ground Wheat: ^^

Corn Gluten Meal: Have we seen those recalls? Anywho.. not good.

Poultry Fat: Can come from any type of poultry. I don't remember off the top of my head whether it requires the animals to be slaughtered prior to feeding or not.


Chicken-By-Product Meal: Erm.. all the bits of the chicken ground up that you do NOT want. Can include cancerous, diseased tissue, etc. And there are a LOT of diseased chickens out there.

Natural Poultry Flavoring: Uhhh... ew. This could be anything. And I do mean anything.

Salt: Your dog does not need salt added to the food. That's just to make it more appetizing. Too much salt is as bad for humans as it is for animals.

The pro pac is a teensie bit better, but do you really want to be feeding your dog that? =/ Canidae is by far the best. The others are not in the same league. It's like asking a disabled Pomeranian to beat a well-conditioned Thoroughbred. It's not happening.

Also, you do NOT have to buy from stores near you. You can make a once-a-month trip somewhere that sells it cheaper or that you want to buy from. You could also request that another store near you stock it. Many companies are happy to do that. OR choose another, equally high-quality food. If you've got your heart set on canidae, though, go with it. Look at "Ingredients to Avoid," please, if you haven't been there. That will give perspective on your food, as well as the book "Foods Pets Die For."
"and I dont play the victim, I own my stuff... but whatever blows your skirt up. "
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:17 AM
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MafiaPrincess MafiaPrincess is offline
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The black gold ingredients make me a little nauseated honestly.. I never thought I'd spend what I spend on dog kibble.. But the plus side is we've rarely ever had a non scheduled appointment at the vet. She's been really healthy, and I think in part it's due to better food, which is an argument you may want to partially use.

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