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  #21  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerRiot View Post
Its all in their socialzing as they grow up..
i don't completley agree with that, i was talkign to a lot of people that have kelpies on another forum. they've nearly all (except atleast 1) have problems with their dogs being DA despite their dog experience and socialisation. which is weird i guess, considering they were bred to work all day with other dogs around, but i suppose they also have the ability to be very focussed on their work

harry has been well socialised, he loved other dogs up untill about a week ago now he lunges at them all, he's had good socialisation and no bad expereinces.
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  #22  
Old 06-11-2007, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SummerRiot View Post
Its all in their socialzing as they grow up..
It depends on the dog (and it's genetics) too, I think...


Although (in hindsight), I do not think I socialized my dog as well as I thought I *had*, she *did* have a bad experience at obedience class. She was fine with dogs prior to that. Would *more* socializing have helped? Probably, but who really knows.

We got her as a pup from rescue.. but have no idea what the temperment in her lineage is aside from her parents. Plus, being a dobe, she is protective by nature and not meant to work along side other dogs. In her case, socializing would only go so far, I believe...

There are plenty of dogs who spend most of their lives in crates without *any* socialization and have no FA whatsoever after they are rescued.
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  #23  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:27 AM
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There are definite breed tendencies but dog are individuals also.... Sal is as dog friendly as any dog out there and he is a dreaded "Pit Bull". My Neighbors APBT is the same way.

I have seen some pretty DA Labs in my day.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:53 AM
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I think what a lot of people forget is that DA is a natural trait found to some extent in all dogs, just like prey drive. It's something that would help them to survive if they were suddenly on their own. Being a natural trait, (like prey drive) I don't think it's possible to eliminate it totally within a breed context.

The hound groups do seem to have less DA to start with overall. Like others have said, humans have bred dogs that work in teams with other dogs to have less DA, because it makes our job easier. Just like guardian breeds are bred to have a heightened sense of their territory, or terriers to have a heightened prey drive.

It's not that we remove traits from breeds we don't desire them in. We either accentuate them or diminish them. Those traits were there to begin with, and will always be to some extent. Now, certain individuals can be completely non DA nearly 100% of the time, but there are extreme instances where even they might be pushed over the edge.

And then, socialization and training can completely flip everything on it's head. Our old shepherd was VERY drivey, and wanted to eat all small animals she saw. It took over 6 months of careful positive conditioning, but she accepted our cat and house rabbit as family members not to be eaten or chased. There are thousands of examples of where environment overcomes the genetic tendencies of a dog. You could also point at a pit who has a small to moderate amount of DA (no more than the average dog, maybe less) and the amount of conditioning and torture the dog fighters will put that animal through to make it hate other dogs enough to kill them.
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  #25  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:37 AM
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It comes down to the work the breeder put into the line, the selection of temperament and the work the pup gets BEFORe sale.
And in addition the work the buyer MUST do daily for the first year and continue to do so for the lifetime of the dog.
Ive been training, showing, rescueing and now grooming thousands of dogs and NOT one breed has come into my eye without dog or people issues.
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  #26  
Old 06-11-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerRiot View Post
I'd be careful with Terriers..

I've only met a handful of terriers that are 100% dog friendly..
very true. i think a lot of times the more tenacious and high-strung the breed, the more likely to be dog agressive. and while socialization has a LOT to do with it, the individual dog does, too.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:57 PM
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Generally - Goldens, Labs, Spaniels, Hounds
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2007, 09:01 PM
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I have heard that some pit bulls even refuse to fight. Dog fighters try to get a fight going by forcing two dogs faces together or what not, and nothing happens, so they have to use a different dog thats willing to fight. And then there are the pits who are extremely DA at 8 weeks old. So I think its more about the individual dog than people think. Alot of factors go into it though.
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerRiot View Post
Its all in their socialzing as they grow up..
I totally disagree and I find this line of thinking somewhat dangerous. The fact is that 80% of breeds are same sex agressive. You could socialize until the cows come home on certain breeds (most terriers, molossers, spitz) and you will come to find that they are still same sex aggressive.
For dog friendly breeds I would go with most hounds, toy breeds and most of the retrievers. You ST.Bernard or Newfie with proper temperment should fit the bill as well.
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  #30  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerRiot View Post
Its all in their socialzing as they grow up..
That's not true. I've read accounts of pittie people who socialized the heck out of their puppies, giving them positive experiences with other dogs, going to the dog park daily, and then they hit puberty and DA started to kick in. I'm not saying this is the case with every pittie, but it can definitely happen even WITH extensive socializing.

I don't think "every dog can have trait XYZ" responses are very helpful. Different breeds were bred for different traits and different purposes; some breeds exhibit more of one trait, some have more of another. You can find an exception in any breed but IN GENERAL some breeds will have more of trait or behavior XYZ than others. I'm sure there are lazy dalmations who don't want to exercise, but in general a couch potato should not get a dalmation. You can find a rat terrier who loves to lick and cuddle with rats, but in general you should not have a rat terrier in the same room when you let Ratty out for exercise.

It's easier to pick a breed with the ideal traits to begin with rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole through behavior modification.
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