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  #121  
Old 06-17-2007, 04:29 AM
Dictator Dictator is offline
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DK,
That was clearly a very hateful post. I do hope that makes you feel better. Perhaps you should take a trip to Brazil to tell others who have been into Fila for generations that they have it all wrong? I am going back for two months in September and I would be glad to introduce you. What you need to take into account is that I have owned 100's of this race of dog and been around thousands. I am not speaking from owning one pet.
Things are what they are. A Fila is Fila because that is what was and continues to be needed. Necessity is the mother of invention, that is what made the race come to be. It may be difficult for you to understand and my English is for worse than my Portuguese, so please forgive me.

Thank You,
Nestor Costa
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  #122  
Old 06-17-2007, 04:50 AM
Dictator Dictator is offline
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Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
Okay.. I know we've had a zillion "Renee tell us about the Grrrls" threads, but I have some questions that I'm almost positive weren't asked. I can't remember them all... but I'll add as I go.


Tell me about the white-brindle dogs. I've heard them described.. Are they just pale fawns?

What do you think of breeders who sell every pup they have as breeding quality except the few marked as "pets" and why?

What about breeders who don't socialize their pups before they go home to new owners?

How was it bringing your fila puppies home? Did they hate you at first, or were they wary of you?

Are all Filas as intelligent as Kharma and Shiva?

Why is there such a HUGE variation type still, even though there appears to be many dogs considered breeding stock?

I've seen a Fila that honestly resembles a cow on one Fila breeder's website.. I believe it was Eshabeta. Why on earth did they breed her? I know temperament and ability come first in determining breed-worthiness, but she is rather extreme.

What do you think of Filas who have their hips high above their shoulders (like 4 inches or more)? Does it hurt them or cause structural problems? I think it's a tad bit extreme.

How are your Filas with strangers petting them on neutral territory? Why? How do they react when people come onto your property? How about when you bring people into your home? Do you have to lock them up!? I read that on several sites, and it made me twitch.

Fila mixes--I read in one article (only one, mind you.. couldn't much more info on it) that they are unstable. Fact or fiction? I'm inclined to say fiction, but I really have no grounds to judge upon.

What do you think of breeding for Filas with less ojeriza?

Okay.. all for now. More when I remember. I apologize if I asked any dumb ones, I only got a few hours of sleep last night.
It is about time I answer these questions.

1.) I have never seen the color that you have spoken of in Fila. It is not native to the race.

2.) I do not interfere with the polices of others

3.) These is confusing question. The reason for socializing is to make dogs social with strangers correct? Perhaps I am not understanding. Fila is not a social race with strangers.

4.) Fila puppies imprint on new owners at the age of 8 to 12 weeks. This time is crucial to introduce people that the Fila does not hate later on in life.

5.) I do not know these dogs. Fila are an intelligent race.

6.) In Brazil it is only attitude that defines Fila. Looks are not so important.

7.) I do not speak of others. I would suggest you ask this person directly.

8.) High in the croup ads to speed of chase and power through the attack.
Hitting power comes from the rear of Fila.

9.) Strangers cannot put hands on Fila. Fila will not let them. The dogs ,must be put up around strangers if they enter the Filas home. Fila only accept the touch of owners. They must never be off leash around strangers nor should strangers be allowed to approach the dogs.

10.) I do not know of mix Fila. They should be like other mixes I think.

11.) Ojeriza is Fila. The most important trait. Less Ojeriza means less dog.

I hope I have answered your questions.

Thank You,
Nestor Costa
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  #123  
Old 06-17-2007, 07:52 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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I find Nestor's posts to be very interesting, and am very glad he joined this conversation. I can't pooh-pooh the posts of someone who's lived in Brazil with filas all his life, and whose family raised working filas for generations.

To be honest, I find his posts to be more true to what the Brazilian fila temperament is supposed to be (according only to what I've read online.) If all filas were like Kharma and Shiva, then I don't see why they'd make a rule in Brazil saying judges don't have to touch a fila in the ring.

I've looked on the websites of breeders of brazilian filas. One of them said "We even have ONE fila you can touch!" Their other dogs will not tolerate strangers at all, and they take it as a matter of course.

Before I came on Chaz, I met a fila breeder at a Petco in Austin. Lovely senior lady who had a female fila with her. Hubby and I were in love with the dog and asked about it. She said "These dogs are very good guardians of family. Only get these dogs if you have experience with guardian breeds." Hubby said he had rotties in the past, and she shook her head: "There's absolutely no comparison between the two." She said the female was the ONLY fila she ever had that was safe enough to take into public. We asked about socialization, and she said, "No, that doesn't make a difference. They're hard-wired to be that way. It's like trying to teach a golden not to fetch. Don't get these dogs if you can't handle that trait."

That's not to say that everyone else's observations are wrong. To me, there is one thing in this thread that jumps out at me---there is obviously a HUGE divergence in the fila lines worldwide. I don't see one as being better than the other, but I wonder if the lines will eventually split entirely.
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  #124  
Old 06-17-2007, 09:49 AM
gdsgregory gdsgregory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gempress View Post
I find Nestor's posts to be very interesting, and am very glad he joined this conversation.

To me, there is one thing in this thread that jumps out at me---there is obviously a HUGE divergence in the fila lines worldwide. I don't see one as being better than the other, but I wonder if the lines will eventually split entirely.
I think you are spot on with this Gempress and hopefully everyone can identify with this and then kiss and make up lol!

I had suspected this for quite some time as I was always confused about how so many people spoke of their animals. You know things like - I took my dog to the pet store / dog park etc etc.

What we should all be gratefull of is that we all have a "Fila" that is good for us as individuals and that noone here has a dog that is too sharp or soft for them. We all have animals that have the correct temp for our needs or living situation. Ultimately it is a credit to the breeds working heritage and ability to "evolve".

Gempress also asked
Quote:
but I wonder if the lines will eventually split entirely
I think that this is what we are seeing as was the case with the English Staffordshire bull terrier coming to the US and now being two breeds - Amstaff and APBT or the Rotweiller now being essentially a different animal when comparing American lines to East German lines or the differences in the Cane corso Americano / Italiano.

At the end of the day who cares? I got my guys and they do what I need them to do and you guys seem to have exactly what you need.

I think perhaps we should consider that due to this thread many of us here have learnt a bit more about our beloved breed................
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  #125  
Old 06-17-2007, 09:56 AM
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Zoom Zoom is offline
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Gemp, are you referring to NODIB kennels? They've got some pretty neat dogs.
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  #126  
Old 06-17-2007, 09:59 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
Gemp, are you referring to NODIB kennels? They've got some pretty neat dogs.
I don't know, I didn't ask the kennel name. Hubby and I were too busy gushing over the fila. It was a pretty red, too.
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  #127  
Old 06-17-2007, 10:04 AM
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I briefly worked with a girl who works/ed at Nodib and she was telling me about how they had one Fila that was mellow enough to go to Petsmart, which sounds like the same dog. That would be a neat little "six degrees of seperation"!
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  #128  
Old 06-17-2007, 10:20 AM
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bubbatd bubbatd is offline
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The thing I've gotten from these 127 pages , is that NO ONE is going to change Nestor's mind ! Only he owns Filas and that's that ! So Fila owners ........you might as well tear up your registration papers and advise your breeders that you want your money back for falsifying the breed .
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  #129  
Old 06-17-2007, 10:42 AM
Dictator Dictator is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gempress View Post
I find Nestor's posts to be very interesting, and am very glad he joined this conversation. I can't pooh-pooh the posts of someone who's lived in Brazil with filas all his life, and whose family raised working filas for generations.

To be honest, I find his posts to be more true to what the Brazilian fila temperament is supposed to be (according only to what I've read online.) If all filas were like Kharma and Shiva, then I don't see why they'd make a rule in Brazil saying judges don't have to touch a fila in the ring.

I've looked on the websites of breeders of brazilian filas. One of them said "We even have ONE fila you can touch!" Their other dogs will not tolerate strangers at all, and they take it as a matter of course.

Before I came on Chaz, I met a fila breeder at a Petco in Austin. Lovely senior lady who had a female fila with her. Hubby and I were in love with the dog and asked about it. She said "These dogs are very good guardians of family. Only get these dogs if you have experience with guardian breeds." Hubby said he had rotties in the past, and she shook her head: "There's absolutely no comparison between the two." She said the female was the ONLY fila she ever had that was safe enough to take into public. We asked about socialization, and she said, "No, that doesn't make a difference. They're hard-wired to be that way. It's like trying to teach a golden not to fetch. Don't get these dogs if you can't handle that trait."

That's not to say that everyone else's observations are wrong. To me, there is one thing in this thread that jumps out at me---there is obviously a HUGE divergence in the fila lines worldwide. I don't see one as being better than the other, but I wonder if the lines will eventually split entirely.
Thank you. I really do not understand why people get so upset. If I where a cardiac surgeon, would people get angry if I told them how the heart works?

Hard wired is a very good way to put it. The Fila was created to protect. The same way a Husky was created tp pull sleds. A Fila that does not protect or a Husky that won't pull would not have been considered a good example of the race to those who needed the dog to do it's function.

Thank You,
Nestor Costa
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  #130  
Old 06-17-2007, 11:00 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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I've been following this thread as well. I've found it to be very informative and I've actually learned several things so far. Keep it coming!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictator View Post
Hard wired is a very good way to put it. The Fila was created to protect. The same way a Husky was created tp pull sleds. A Fila that does not protect or a Husky that won't pull would not have been considered a good example of the race to those who needed the dog to do it's function.
That is a good example IMO. Huskies, though perhaps more challenging, can be taught to walk nicely on a leash (NO PULLING).
So, I can see how some Fila's can tolerate strangers much more than others. It not only depends on their lines, but their owners, and their own judgement/brains
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