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  #111  
Old 06-16-2007, 11:43 PM
Dictator Dictator is offline
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Fila are fantastic guard dogs. They are a very violent breed, but that is he essence of the race. I am not going to guess that some may not have that temperment. Those would not qualify as Fila.

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Nestor Costa
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  #112  
Old 06-16-2007, 11:55 PM
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Do you really not believe that they have the intelligence to adapt and learn? That is what has allowed them to survive all these centuries. I am sorry that so many who do love the breed are missing out on these dogs' incredible capacities. So very sad.
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  #113  
Old 06-17-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Do you really not believe that they have the intelligence to adapt and learn? That is what has allowed them to survive all these centuries. I am sorry that so many who do love the breed are missing out on these dogs' incredible capacities. So very sad.
They are very intellegent, but so are many other races of dog. What makes a Fila truley Fila is the violent temperment unique amongst dogs. Ojeriza is Fila.

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  #114  
Old 06-17-2007, 12:11 AM
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The Fila intellect is obviously much more flexible and grasps new concepts better than the human intellect at times. Ojeriza and an ability to move about and function comfortably in the world are not mutually exclusive. And to say that a Fila is nothing more than a violent creature who hates everyone other than immediate "family" is certainly not granting these creatures any credit for intelligence, cunning or abilities to adapt and survive.

And yet, regardless of what you or I think or believe, the Fila continues to adapt and survive and learns to live in a changing world, sometimes far better than many humans.

The essence of the Fila is not violence; it is great heart, courage, intelligence and loyalty that surpasses any breed I have ever encountered. Yes, the ojeriza is present in abundance, but the Fila rules the ojeriza; the ojeriza does not rule the Fila.
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Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

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  #115  
Old 06-17-2007, 12:53 AM
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I have no place in this debate since I don't own a Fila, but I'm bored and had a couple questions on my mind.

Nestor,

Since when does ojeriza equal violence? Violence is never mentioned in the definition. Just "averison". Dislike. Do you try to kill everyone you don't like? If you are going to brag up the intelligence of these dogs, then give them some credit.

I'm getting a little irritated with you deciding what is and is not a Fila. If you have Filas that bite to kill, then maybe it is you who doesn't have the "correct" Fila. Sure, these are very large and powerful dogs but you would be amazed at how precisely they can control their jaws. If all Filas bit down with crushing force, what use would they have been as working dogs when the breed was developed? Nobody here ever said that Filas don't bite, but they certainly can control a person or animal without maiming them.

You talk about your Filas on a farm, well perhaps the way the farm dogs are raised makes a difference in how violent and unmanageable they are. People on farms need Filas for one reason, and one reason only - work. The dogs never leave the farm. They are never socialized to anything but their working environment. So how can you compare those working Filas to urban Filas who are exposed to so many people and environments that they learn how to read human mannerisms, and eventually are able to distinguish what is normal and what is abnormal/threatening? How can you expect them to gauge what degree of force is necessary to get someone to back off, if they've never had civil contact with another person?
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  #116  
Old 06-17-2007, 01:21 AM
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RD..
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  #117  
Old 06-17-2007, 01:51 AM
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I was kind of wondering something along a similar line to RD.
If you lock the dog away from the world, how can you actually know what its true nature is like? Surely a dog that is well socialised is going to be far more true to its character than one that is never exposed to anything but its home environment?
That's certainly not to say that pure working dogs need to be socialised like pets, but to say that a dog that is well socialised in a number of different environments (urban and rural) is not true to the breed seems a little off balance to me. No matter what breed we're talking about.

Cass.
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  #118  
Old 06-17-2007, 01:57 AM
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RD,
Fila is a farm race. You can have one outside the farm, you can also drive a John Deere tractor as a daily commute car. It would not be that effective, but you may. This is the same for Fila. In Brasil, Fila is on the farm. Being a farmer or rancher in Brasil is very dangerous. Criminals threaten to kill farmers and take the farm, so you need a dog to protect. This is the job of Fila.
In Brazil, Fila are only kept in the city by those who live in favelas. Those places is where people are killed everyday. They do not need a dog just to bark, but to attack and save lives.
I learned to walk by grabbing the neck of a Fila. We always had 20 to 40 Fila at any one time. I know the breed very well.
Now, it is for me to live in a city, that is why I have Dogo Brasil and not Fila. Dogo Brasil is much better suit for life in a city. They are very accepting of people but still strong guard. Not as violent as Fila and for this situation that is a good thing.

I hope I answered your question.

Thank You,
Nestor Costa
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  #119  
Old 06-17-2007, 02:35 AM
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I have been silently watching this thread ever since my wife brought it to my attention with pity and disgust. The main problem that I see here is that to HoJ || Dictator one Fila is every Fila. The very notion that every Fila thinks and behaves in exactly the same manor is as inherently absurd as saying that every human thinks and behaves exactly alike. It's an easy mistake to make... Taking your personal experiences with one breed, in one role, trained one way, in one place, to do one thing, and globalizing this one repetitious experience into "all that Fila are." It's also an easy stance to defend when you talk in such absolutes... You love using words and phrases like "cannot" "is not" "impossible" and "has to." What this means is that you have already made up your mind. The case is closed. The book has been read, and you know how it ends.

Basically by talking down to all of these people you are illustrating that your mind is absolutely closed, and narrow when it comes to this. Fila are what you say they are. It's a good thing reality (past, present, or future) doesn't give a flying rip what you think. Otherwise I wouldn't want to bother continuing to live in the place in which you "dictate".

It's amazing how you can so blindly, and narrowly, take a race of living beings, and paint them all into such a small corner, label them, and dismiss them. You are, in fact, arguing against nature. In nature everything evolves, and everything changes -- This especially holds true when humans put their grubby little fingers into the cookie jar. We LOVE to take a good thing and screw it up. Its in our blood.

So lets, now put everything you're saying into context. You're saying that a breed of dog... numbering in the hundreds of thousands (millions?) across the globe. A dog breed whose bloodlines, temperaments, looks, and physical traits are in the hands of hundreds of breeders across the globe. A breed who has been taken out of its original habitat, and been planted in numerous new environments which place new requirements upon the breed. You say that with a breed of dog going through all that... It is impossible for the breed produce any variance, of any sort, from the dogs you happened to know back home? and on top of that you claim that the breed cannot, under any circumstances, adapt to any life other than the life that you picked out for them. So, basically, what you're saying is that flying in the face of nature, the will to survive, the ability to adapt, the intelligence of the breed... No dog that is, or came from a Fila bloodline could possibly be anything other than what you say it should be.

Wow. Thanks. Geez. Should we wait around for you to start slaughtering anyone who isn't fair haired and blue eyed, or can I take it from the fact that you're an unyielding, unrelenting, unintuitive, unimaginative, completely close minded bigot when it comes to "your" breed, that nobody should ever listen to you about anything except the strict parameters under which you chiseled your non-malleable opinion from the bedrock of ignorance?

So, for all you intelligent people reading at home, please prefix anything that HoJ or Dictator says with the following phrase: "The killing machines that we raise, and train, on our farm to be as ruthless and unforgivig as possible." That puts everything that those two user-names say in the proper context for you.

Back to reality. A proper owner of a Fila should be able to mold an amazing breed of dog into any capacity, and under any environment.

Back to reality. A breed that is being "bred" will naturally change over time, not making it any less the breed, than your children when they know how to do things with technology that you never dreamed of will be less human.

Back to reality. An intelligent, intuitive, responsive, understanding, watchful animal will *always* be able to adapt.

Back to reality. In the end... "you" (restricted plural) don't have any say at all where the breed came from, where the breed is, or where the breed is going. Those are simple, solid, facts.

So... your born, bred, and trained killing machines are what fila can be under certain circumstances. And Renees girls are examples of Fila under different circumstances. My Bella is an example of this remarkable breed in yet a different role.

I would ask that the next time you decide to open your mouth and spew forth the flies that you cradle therein, that you should expect to be called on your stance, your arrogance, and your ignorance for that that makes you. A narrow minded man who participates in, condones, and continues to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about a breed that is so much more than people like you will ever know.

Mores the pity, for you'll live your whole life believing a lie: That you are an authority figure based on your few square acres in one part of the world with one breed of dog raised in only one set of circumstances trained in one way and expected to do one thing.

Statistically speaking. You are being completely, utterly, and resolutely absurd. Obtuse speaks not only of your viewpoint, but your ego.

I could go on, But I believe that I have made my point: This discussion is nobodies class room. After having made, and argued your point, please move along. Other people would like to use the soap box as well. You're hogging the action, and polluting both the screen and the mind.

As for the exercise of replying... Don't bother... One of lifes little lessons is this: "Never argue with a stupid person. They'll bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience." I invite everybody to now learn about one particularly wonderful feature of the vBulletin software: the "ignore" feature.

Cheers!
DK
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  #120  
Old 06-17-2007, 02:38 AM
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I <3 you.
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