Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-03-2007, 05:24 AM
Erin Erin is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
Default Training - where to start?

My family has an almost-11-month old puppy, a cocker spaniel/Jack Russel cross. She is very lovable, sweet and friendly however she does do destructive things such as attacking the cat, digging, ripping up things and stealing food from tables.

She goes for at least two walks a day, sometimes three and is quite good on the lead, occasionally she pulls. She is on the Hill's Science diet, sometimes she gets very hyper when visitors arrive and she starts jumping all over them. The only person she really respects is my father and he has been away for two weeks so her behaviour has been getting worse gradually. She won't listen to anyone else when we try get back something she has stolen (like a pen off the table) and often starts chewing things, sometimes even eating them.

A dog trainer has been to train her, it works wonderfully for awhile but then wears off.

Can anyone give any advice as to how we should train her?

EDIT: She is spade and up to date with vaccinations.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2007, 09:13 AM
Maxy24's Avatar
Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,808
Default

ok, well there are a lot of things going on. As far as destructiveness goes she is still young and very energetic. She is probably bored. She needs lots of toys that you rotate to make sure she never gets bored of them. Get her chew toys, squeaky toys, soft toys and toys that dispense food when she plays with them. JRT are very hyper so she needs a lot of exercise. Do you have a fenced in yard to let her run in? or can she go jogging or biking with you? she needs to expend all her energy. As for the digging, being a JRT mix she will want to dig. She should have an appropriate place to do so. Make or but her a sand box and fill it with play sand and bury treats in the sand so she will learn that it is the right place to dig. Whenever she does not dog in the sand box, go over pick her up and put her in the sand box and get her to dig either by showing her (some dogs will start digging if you dog in front of them) or by putting some treats in the sand. Put the sand box in a shady location so the sand does not get hot or she will not want to dig there. So until she always digs in the sand box she must be supervised when she is outside.

Ripping things up will be fixed with her toys. When ever she is chewing something inappropriate entice her over with her own toy and get her to play with it. Make sure you do this every time. Eventually she will learn that she is supposed to chew her toys. If you see her with her toy go over and give her a treat or play with her with the toy for a minute so she knows she is doing the right thing.

Stealing food from tables is difficult to deal with sometimes since if a dog sees food he is obviously going to eat it, they see no reason not to. For that reason the dog must learn the "leave it" and "drop it" commands. Until the dog learns these commands you must work very hard to make sure you do not leave any food out unattended on the counter or table. I am not 100% sure how to teach "leave it" so I will leave that to doberluv or another member who has done it successfully.

"Drop it" (which you also need to know for your dog because he steals items and will run away from you) is not too hard to teach but it will probably take time and patience on your part. Take the dog, one of the items (not food and not something dangerous) that she likes to steal, and lots of super yummy treats (like sliced hot dog) into a room with a door, and close the door and have her on a leash so she can't run. Put the item on the ground. When she grabs the item simply hold the treat to her nose (don't let her take it) as soon as she drops the item give her the treat and praise her. Do this over and over. If she becomes bored with the item go get another one and use that. DO NOT GET MAD at her for stealing an item, that will cause her to run and avoid you when she takes something. When you put the item down, if she looks at it and does not go and take it then give her a treat. Pick it up and put it back down maybe toss it a little. If she picks it up just put the treat to her nose and get her to drop it, then give her the treat when she does. If she does not pick it up give her a treat then take the item and go get another. We want her to pick it up so that we have the chance to correct the stealing and teach the command. As soon as you get to the point where you put the treat up to her nose and she drops it immediately EVERY TIME you can start actually teaching the command. Up until now you have not said anything to get her to drop the item because she does not know what the command means. Now you are going to start saying "drop it" when you put the treat to her nose. Only say the command once and as soon as she drops the item give the treat. Do this over and over for a few days or weeks (how ever long it takes, some dogs are faster or slower than others) at 10 mins. a session each day maybe two sessions a day until she will drop the item with ONLY the command. Do the treat to nose and command for a few days and then try just the command without putting the treat to nose first. If she drops it when you do this then give her the treat and praise her a lot. Then continue to use the command without putting the treat to her nose first for every training session. Still make sure she gets the treat when she drops the item. If at any point she does not drop the treat when you say the command you can repeat the command ONCE more. If she still does not listen then put the treat to her nose and use the command again and do that for the next few times you get her to drop the item. After using the treat to nose with command a few more times try it with just the command again. Once you have her dropping these material items on command move up to food...

Choose a food item that is too big to swallow in once or two bites and that is not very flavorful. I suggest a bulky roll since it is plain and large. Just do what you did with the item. Try it the first time with just the command. If it works ten that is great! Give her the treat (for this section you may want to upgrade treats, you know what she likes, maybe cheese, pieces of chicken or beef, something that is a lot better than the roll). If she does not respond to just the command then go back to treat on nose. And work back up to only command like you did with the material items items. If she get to a point where she is perfect with the roll then move to a yummier food and continue to move up to better and better foods (getting better treats too) as she does perfect with the one before it. Eventually she will be dropping whatever you ask.

Now during the time she is being trained always have some treats on hand (sure you can't carry meat in your pocket but some regular dog treats should work fine for this) so if she happens to steal something that you forgot to put away you can get it from her and praise her for giving it up, you always want to be able to praise her for doing the right thing. If it was a food item she stole and it is safe for her to eat then after you get it from her give her a little piece of it as a treat for giving it up.

So give it a try and if there are any complications then just tell me and I'll see what i can do about it.



Ok, jumping. You will need to set her up. Get a friend that is willing to help you with this for a while. Have her knock on the door and come in. Make him just stand inside not paying any attention to the dog. You just wait and as soon as your dog puts all four feet on the floor give her a treat. She will likely go back to jumping when she finishes her treat so just wait again until she stops, then give the treat. do this over and over until she stops jumping and calms down, then have the person kneel down and give her a treat and some attention and praise. The have your friend stand up. If she starts jumping when the person stands then wait once again like before and repeat over and over. if after the person stands up from kneeling she does NOT jump give her a treat and have the person leave and come back in in a minute. She will jump again so you should just repeat what you did before. This will likely take a long time so be patient once again do 10 minute training sessions twice a day.

If during this training (anytime before she does not automatically not jump) someone is coming over and is not going to help with the training put her in another room until everyone is settled and she will not jump. If you are still worried she will jump then bring her out on a leash so you can keep her from jumping.

Once you get her to stop jumping pretty quickly just by waiting start getting her to sit also. So once she stops jumping give her the treat and then tell her to sit and when she does give her another treat. Do this a few times. Then do not give a treat when she stops jumping. Once she stops tell her to sit and then give her a treat. This will teach her that the proper way to greet visitors is to sit. Eventually she will auto sit when people come in the house, make sure you give her a treat every time (leave a jar of them near the door, with a cover on them so she can't take them) until it simply become a habit (a month or two from the time she gets a perfect sit every time automatically during training)


Ok so i hope that helps, you may also want to see if you can do agility with her since that would burn off a lot of energy and it loads of fun for the dog and handler. GOOD LUCK! tell me how things go or if you have any questions about what I wrote.


Oh and also, since you mentioned her food...it really has nothing to do with training but I really don't like that stuff there is not enough meat for a species who's ancestors lived (and still live) off meat in the wild. Ask about it in the food section and we'll give you recommendations plus the reasons we don't like it. Or you can do a search of the food section about Science Diet.
__________________
~Erin~



Thank you ~Dixie's Mom~ for my awesome siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
treehugging clicker freak
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OH
Posts: 12,849
Default

What an interesting mix - do you have any pics of your pup?

A lot of the destructive behavior does sound like she is probably bored. How much exercise is she getting, and at what times during the day? For example; instead of one long walk, try dividing it up to one in the morning, and one in the afternoon. That way, she won't have as much pent-up energy during the day (because she hasn't been walked yet).
There are several stickys on the forum that I highly recommended reading!
One is Why you Puppy Needs a Toy Box
This one has a lot of great threads linked into one thread

You said that a trainer has trained her, but it "wears off". Dogs often forget things they've learned if they are not reinforced or practiced. My suggestion would be to set aside 5mins of your day to put your puppy through her paces, ie practice/reinforce what she already knows and even teach her another trick. Remember with your sessions to always set your dog up for success, and to end on a good note (before a dog burns out - keep your 'sessions' short ) if at all possible
Have you ever thought about clicker training? It's a very useful tool, I've found it to be fun to use and its easy for dogs to understand. I've had a lot of fun with mine and targeting. I taught my Cocker Spaniel to bring me the remote - and I was very surprised how easy it was with the clicker! Do a search on here, or google if you can - there is a lot of information out there.

"Leave it" Is a very useful command. It's one of the first commands I teach, I believe its important for a dog to know, and I use it or at least practice it every day to ensure that my dogs understand it thoroughly. "Leave It" article "Leave it" is a term that can be used very broadly. Leave the food on the floor, leave it on the table, leave the cat, etc ...

When visitors come over, remember she is still young, she needs to be leashed. If you can, ask a friend or two to come over and practice good behavior. There are a couple of options with this one. With the jumping, you tell her to "sit stay" because its impossible for her to be jumping and sitting at the same time. Tell your friend that they can pet her only if she is sitting. If she gets up, have them stand up straight and give her 0 attention - No eye contact, no talking, petting, etc. You tell her again to sit, and they can resume petting. They usually catch on pretty quickly
Another thing you can teach for the visitor problem (this can be applied to other situations, too) is teach her "place" or "on you bed" etc. Does she have a crate or a bed? You can teach her to kennel up, or to get on her bed by command. This is a command that needs to be broken up into steps, and if you practice everyday, your goal would be to be able to be in another room and to tell her to go to her bed and wait there until you release her (until she is calm, etc). That way she isn't bouncing or interrupting your visitors
"Place" article

I hope that helps a little bit - I'm sure more will chime in with great advice in a little bit. Good luck with your pup, and let us know how she is doing
P.S - I would seriously consider switching foods if at all possible. The ingredients in Science Diet are not very good at all. If you get a chance, head on over to the Food section of the forum. There's lots of information here on Chaz, I hope we can help . . .
__________________

Maddie CGC .:. Cocker Spaniel .:. 12 y/o
Bailey CGC .:. Shetland Sheepdog .:. 5 y/o
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-06-2007, 05:19 AM
Erin Erin is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
Default

Thank you SO much Erin and Brattina.

This is very, very helpful information. I'll take your advice and try some things out. Is the dog food Beneful any good? My mother bought this today, to see what it was like.

I have tried clicker training briefly, it did help. I'll have to give it another try.

This is the only picture I have of her at the moment, but you get the idea.



Again, thank you. This really does help. If anyone else has advice, please keep it coming.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-06-2007, 12:30 PM
Maxy24's Avatar
Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,808
Default

Sorry but Beneful is icky! We can help you find some good brands though. Are you in the USA? if so then I recommend looking for Canidae, Innova, EVO, California Natural, Orijen, or Timber Wolf Organics. The least expensive one is Canidae which is an awesome food, many of us here feed it.

here are some store locators (if you are in Canada they have many of these food there too)

Canidae http://www.canidae.com/company/storelocator.html

Innova, EVO and California natural (all by same company) http://www.naturapet.com/where-to-buy/

Timber Wolf Organics
http://timberwolforganics.com/where-to-buy

Orijen (is not as wide spread in the USA) http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/storeLocator/


I might have missed a few but others will fill you in I'm sure. i hope this helps. I also want you to visit this site http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

it teaches you what to look for in dog food. Look at the ingredients to avoid list especially. All dog foods should have some sort of MEAT or meat meal as the first ingredient and should not have much in the way of corn, wheat or corn/wheat gluten. Wolves don't eat this and they are made up inside like your dog, your dog is not made to eat that stuff either.

this is Beneful ingredients
Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, sorbitol, tricalcium phosphate, water, animal digest, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sorbic acid (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried peas, dried carrots, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), added color (Yellow 5, Red 40, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine, zinc sulfate, glyceryl monostearate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.
F-4090

There is not meat in there at all. BY PRODUCTS are not good either since you have no idea what part of the animal this came from.

Compare that to this
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

and this
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Whole Ground Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Brown Rice, Ground Barley, White Fish Meal, Ground Whole Flaxseed, Unrefined Roasted Walnut Oil, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Leaf, Sun Dried Tomatoes, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Salmon Oil, Dried Cottage Cheese, Casein, Dried Chicken Liver, Potassium Chloride, Turmeric, Anise Seed, Cumin, Ground Ginger, Organic Blue Corn, Dried Cranberries, Rosemary, Coriander, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Bacillus Subtillus, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

See how the first two or three ingredients are meat. There is no corn or wheat. There are also no harmful ingredients like menadione which is in Beneful.

So look for the brands I suggested and read through that site. I'm glad you joined since we are always happy to teach and help. And Your pup is precious!!
__________________
~Erin~



Thank you ~Dixie's Mom~ for my awesome siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-06-2007, 12:36 PM
noludoru's Avatar
noludoru noludoru is offline
Bored Now.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 17,598
Default

doublepost
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha's pet View Post
And it's a turbo so it gets good mileage.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-06-2007, 12:37 PM
noludoru's Avatar
noludoru noludoru is offline
Bored Now.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 17,598
Default

<-- so glad I put the screws to ya

Check your PMs on .calm, Alex.. I did a detailed list of what's actually in the food you're feeding. Maxy's food suggestions are GREAT! You can use some of the websites to find a store near you, or check out a feedstore. (At the most, you might have to check out some dog shows near you to find out where the show people and breeders get their good food.)

PLEASE don't let your mom feed him Benecrap. If it has menadione bisulphate.. I wouldn't feed that to my worst human enemy, it's pure poison, and it's not even real vitamin K. Not to mention the rest of the icky stuff in it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha's pet View Post
And it's a turbo so it gets good mileage.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-07-2007, 08:00 AM
2dogmom's Avatar
2dogmom 2dogmom is offline
Pound Puppy
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the Live Free or Die state
Posts: 165
Default

You might also want to look into the "Nothing in Life is Free" (NILIF) trianing philosophy.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
It is an easy way to get the overall behavior under control if there are no serious behavior issues (like aggression or resource guarding).
__________________
My Karma ran over your Dogma

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:43 AM
Erin Erin is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
Default

I'm in New Zealand. I don't know if it's possible to get the brands you mentioned, Erin, I'll have a look.

Yeah, Kit. I checked my PM's. Thanks.

So, no Beneful ... got it haha.

And thanks 2dogmom for the link.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site