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  #21  
Old 07-08-2005, 06:59 PM
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A Border Collie. beautiful dog. What is it like? I assume it is your dog?
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:10 PM
poeluvr poeluvr is offline
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nope it looks like a toy border collie evryone thinks so. its actually a jack russell and A pomeraniain. it takes after the mother like most dogs do for being a jack. but he has a big forhead pom eyes, and a curly pig like tail from the pom, and is gonna be real small. thanks though. i have more pics in the puppy gallery if ur interested, theyre under poe
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:11 PM
poeluvr poeluvr is offline
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hes a pup, but surprisingly enough not too energetic.hes going to puppy school on monday, cant wait!
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:18 PM
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Puppy school? Cute name, never heard it before. Where is this puppy gallery?
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:26 PM
stirder
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no no no, not saying that it has more wolf in it. it does have wolf in it, but not as recent. and it depends on the german shepherd bloodlines, but some of them do look more wolfish than some sarloos. the only things I have against the sarloos is that (though it has been used for some of the same purposes as the gsd) it was bred to eliminate hip displasia from gsd's, and some of the gsd's used in the breeding were highly prone to the problem. they were not showing signs of it yet, some never did develop it themselves but did produce it in offspring. due to the breeding purpose it is (mentally) more wild than domestic and therefore is harder to train, less territorial and due to its nature it is more liekyl to become a fear biter.
and in a way yes the sarloos is a wolf hybrid. technically there is no such thing as a wolf hybrid though...wolves are canis lupis, divided into sub-species such as the arctic wolf which is canis lupis arctos. the domestic dog is no longer classified as canis familiaris (a seperate canine species, like the coyote or jackals) but is now classified as canis lupis familiaris, just a sub species of wolf. therefore a cross between a wolf and a dog is really a wolf-dog. a hybrid would be a coyote (canis latrans) which is not a subspecies of wolf, crossed with a domestic dog, or wild wolf. the red wolf is highly beleived to be a hybrid of gray wolf and coyote. canis rufus.
the sarloos is more dog like than most wolf-dogs as we know them because most wolf-dogs are between 1st and 3rd generation crosses. there was a experiment in siberia in the late 90's which I cant find any info about online right now, but maybe later since I didnt spend much time trying to relocate it just now. in the experiment they kept foxes in captivity, in the same fassion as fur farmers do. after 8 generations they had developed domestic traits such as: one eye brown, one eye blue; some developed curly hair, others longer than natural soft/fine hair; some with smooth coats like a pointer; some with wire coats; some had longer legs; some had smaller or larger ears; some started showing colors of domestic dogs such as brindle, cream, golden, multi like a gsd, saint bernard etc; all of them were easily handled by humans and only one of I think around 250 showed a prey drive. and that was just breeding captive foxes for several generations, and proved that our ancestors could have just as easily domesticated the dog from the wolf in that short a time. the different traits such as herding, gaurding, retrieving, terrier etc would have taken quite a few more generations of selective breeding. also these fox breeders were not selectively breeding for traits, they just werent allowing them to breed back to wild foxes.
I said that last part to explain that Im certainly not saying the sarloos is wild or uncontrollable. I am just saying they are much harder to train than most of the top popular dog breeds. and more prone to fear biting. and due to their wolf nature they are (from what I've heard from breeders) more prone to wandering. one sarloos breeder in switzerland I spoke with said that she would compare the sarloos' trainability and sociability to a breed like the tibetan mastiff, anatolian shepherd, or great pyrenese (great pyr. several years ago, not the GP today), which are more inclined to come and cuddle when THEY want to, roam long ways, and obey a command ONLY if and when they want to. the same breeder also said she has 2 sarloos that she does therapy and obedience trials with. it takes a lot more time, patience, and training than most people expect. personally I think they are a beautiful dog. if they start being bred for working ability (wether obedience, schutzhund, herding, or something else) and become more readily available I would consider one.
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:39 PM
stirder
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if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stirder
if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.
Thank you very much for that link! Do you know if it's reliable? Just so I won't end up with an illtreated wolf, that some fools have bestowed upon me?

Another thing. These wolfdogs are not exactly the youngest of puppies. I have read that one must get them at a very young age, even young compaired to normal dogs. Taking in one such as these doesn't sound wise to me. How will I know if it wont be foolish to take one of these?

Last edited by wolfdoggy; 07-08-2005 at 08:21 PM.
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2005, 08:53 PM
stirder
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several years ago I adopted a 75% wolf 25% german shepherd. he has since died of cancer. anyway...from the time I began the adoption process till the time I actually braught the dog home was over 6 months. they first reviewed my application (and by they I mean 12 people), then they did 2 home checks, they contacted my vet to make sure he would treat a wolf dog (some wont) and to question him as to what type of owner he thought I was. they they introduced me to 15 different wolf dogs. some they KNEW were not suited for me, but they wanted to get a better feel for me, was I honest about wanting a happy, healthy, friendly dog and not caring about wolf content etc, or was I lying and really wanting something that looked like a wolf, no matter what they said about its personality. after adoptng him they called several times to make sure I was still reachable, and they did 3 home checks in 4 years to check on the dog and to make sure its environment hadnt changed (such as chaining it up in the back yard and never checking on it). if one of their dogs is not suited to living indoors with a person, family, children, dogs, cats etc they wont let you adopt it, but they will keep you in mind and at the top of the list for one that IS suited to that. you have to sign a contract garaunteeing that if for ANY reason you cannot keep the dog you will contact them and let THEM find it a new home. also it costs on average, $500-1,000 to foster a wolf dog for a month, including feed, toys, vet bills, collars, leashes, etc. the average adoption fee (unless it has gone up since I adopted) is $250-400. they do occasionally have puppies, actually right now they have a litter thats 2 1/2 months old. and most of their wolf dogs were raised by people from an early age, and were turned over after they grew up and the owner didnt know how to control them, many are low content dogs whos owners died and family couldnt handle them or moved and couldnt take them (to a state that doesnt allow them or just a smaller yard or an apartment), some are from states who recently changed legislation to prohibit wolf dogs, some were seized from neglectful homes, and others most likely have NO wolf in them but the owner claimed they did, and therefore were deemed un-adoptable by city and state shelters. these dogs are not kept in shelters (unless it says urgent) but in foster homes, all over the country. the foster parent tries to fix any behaviour problems while they have the dog, and will make sure you are aware of any problems before adopting. each of these foster parents is more strict about who the dog goes to than most dog breeders are. most breeders dont do home checks, ever, let alone continue to do them AFTER the adoption. sarloos may be the way to go for you (any of you) but can be hard to locate, and can be expensive. just a suggestion that adopting one of these dogs might be the way to go. the one I adopted was 5 years old and high content, behaviour was almost purely german shepherd, appearance was totally wolf.
edited to add this picture of the wolf hybrid I adopted...
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2005, 09:04 PM
stirder
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might also want this link...they usually have the same dogs on the site as the other one, but now and then they have different ones. http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePh...%253Dtrue&Ux=0

also this one, wolfish dogs, sometimes wolf-dogs http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/NV78.html
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2005, 10:14 PM
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wolfdoggy wolfdoggy is offline
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How was it like to have him, compaired to a German Shepherd?

And thanks for the links
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