Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Dog Breeds


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-07-2007, 10:14 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
Fishies!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,348
Default Moderation

This comes in part from all the show vs working threads... the issue with show dogs that always crops up is the overdoneness of some breeds.

Why don't people breed to moderation? Why does it always seem that people think more extreme is better?

Giant, fat labs, Irish Setters with 30lbs of fur, Bulldogs, etc. I don't think its written anywhere in the standard of the setter that it should have the most fur possible.

With the exception of some breeds (mostly sighthounds) I can't see how some moderation couldn't help things.

Note: This is presented in all seriousness, and not intended to incite another 40 pages of showdog vs working dog.
__________________
Buster
PhotoBlog
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-07-2007, 10:24 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,322
Default

I don't think my breed counts, but...

I don't think papillons are that overly extreme or anything. True, the bigger ears, generally the better as far as showing goes, but moderate dogs do just fine in the ring too. My boy is certainly not very extreme as far as ears go and he champed very very quickly.



But then again, it's not a working breed.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
Summer TG3 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-07-2007, 10:27 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
Fishies!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,348
Default

I do rather like those, at least for the small furry types!

You have mentioned the push for the "butterfly" head effect, although, thats rather minor in the grand scheme of things.
__________________
Buster
PhotoBlog
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-07-2007, 11:49 PM
showpug's Avatar
showpug showpug is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,218
Default

In all honesty, there are many, many good breeders out there that do breed for moderation.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-08-2007, 12:08 AM
IliamnasQuest IliamnasQuest is offline
Loves off-leash training!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,083
Default

In both of my chosen breeds - chows and shepherds - I do believe that moderation is very important. The overly heavy chows with the wrinkled faces and the overly angulated shepherds that nearly walk on their hocks are both wrong to me.

But that doesn't mean the BREEDS are wrong, of course. There are breeders who are extreme and there are breeders who truly have the good of the breed in mind instead of whatever fad is currently hitting the show ring. I took a year to find my youngest chow and she is VERY moderate, and yet she comes from long lines of champions and health tested stock.

I have never heard a truly justified reason for breeding to extreme.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-08-2007, 12:21 AM
~Jessie~'s Avatar
~Jessie~ ~Jessie~ is offline
Chihuahua Power!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 19,601
Default

With chihuahuas, the latest trend is to breed for the "super" appleheads... the ones with the extremely short snouts, and extremely large heads. A lot of breeders are coming to find out that teeth are not coming in (majorly overcrowding), as well as more cases of hydrocephalus (water on the brain) and extended periods of reverse sneezing. These super appleheads are also causing bitches to have more c-sections upon delivery (can't fit thru the birth canal). I've found this to be more so in Europe.

Most American champions are still bred with moderation, and have what I consider to be "perfect" appleheads.
__________________

L to R: Chloe, Rylie, Emma, Tucker, and Rory
My Blog- Chihuahuas are not Sheep
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-08-2007, 12:26 AM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,322
Default

Yeah the only real exaggerations as far as trends go here is to go for the 'butterfly effect' as you put it. Aka- a wide, straight blaze. Not the most important thing to me. It causes a lot of mismarks to be born as well- the blaze gets so wide there is white around the eyes. Many breeders won't touch a solid headed dog even though they are technically perfectly fine specimens of the breed. A straight blaze is just 'preferred'. This is more prevalent in England than it is in the US which is one of the biggest debates in the breed. Most people are also trying for bigger ears, though that's not as big a problem. We're lucky we don't have more differences.

Someone tell my solid headed girl she doesn't look like a butterfly:
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
Summer TG3 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-08-2007, 12:37 AM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
Fishies!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,348
Default

If you insist, little dog, you do not look like a butterfly, but only because I'm 20x the size of you! I actually love that look, but I think its the mask rather than a lack of blaze. What can I say, I love black masks on just about anything...

Its good that some breeders do not get caught up with it, but looking around, I see more exaggeration than moderation, at least in some breeds? I could just be going insane... I've been looking at Carolina Dogs and Dingos the last few days!
__________________
Buster
PhotoBlog
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Sunnierhawk0's Avatar
Sunnierhawk0 Sunnierhawk0 is offline
Feelin' Froggy? Jump!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 2,414
Default

In my breed, Rottweilers, I am expereicing thing problem as we speak. My bitch is 22.5 inches at the shoulder, and weighs 87ish pounds. Standard is 22-25, and yet many people come up to me and ask me "aww how old is the puppy".... She is perfectly in standard, but people are so use to seeing the big overdone bitches and males they dont realize that the standard says "MEDIUM to LARGE" dog... no where does it say extra large. Medium- Large is rarley something people think of when they think Rottweiler. Luckily we have not been passed up too much in the show ring because of her correctness and movement. It does irk me, because I have the old Rottweiler magazines where the correct size is present, and its really sad people have forgotten what a *true* Rottweiler should look like.
__________________




"Friendship is like someone peeing on you, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings"

"Never take life seriously. No one ever gets out of it alive"

"You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, "never try" ."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-08-2007, 01:05 AM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,322
Default

Quote:
If you insist, little dog, you do not look like a butterfly, but only because I'm 20x the size of you! I actually love that look, but I think its the mask rather than a lack of blaze. What can I say, I love black masks on just about anything...
I love black masking too.

Oh we have the size problem too. A few years ago it was in to have dogs on the smaller end of the standard, but now we've apparently gotten 'too small'. Judges have been complaining, so it's back up to bigger dogs again. It's annoying because mine are small. When will people finally understand an 8 inch dog and an 11 inch dog are just as nice as each other? 12 inches is a slight fault but still... shouldn't we be looking more at type and structure? It was annoying because some judges will not place an 8 inch dog and some will not place an 11 inch dog.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
Summer TG3 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site