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  #111  
Old 12-17-2006, 11:56 PM
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before being over critical...just remember that this site is for everyone..not just people that own pit bulls or know a heck of alot about the breed, equipment, whatever... so the reason I put it up there..is because I personally feel its better for someone to call the police, for example, if they suspect a dog fighter, rather than ruling everything out because breaking sticks or treadmills couldn't possibly point to dog fighting...if someone sees a treadmill...they won't be calling the police saying oh, its dog fighting...most people can add one and one together...but if someone sees battered up dogs...multiple dogs tied in a backyard...with scratches and scars....and then there's a treadmill..well..there's more evidence than not...I hope I'm making myself clear.

Do you see what I mean? If someone is innocent..then they will be innocent and they really have nothing to worry about..but if they are not, wouldn't you rather have someone read the information and be more cautious rather than ruling everything out?

Just trying to justify my point....as I know people that do own treadmills and breaking sticks..see nothing wrong with them..but as was posted.. they may point to dog fighting, but of course they may not. To NOT post them on the site as part of the list would also be unfair..don't you agree?
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  #112  
Old 12-18-2006, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pitbulliest View Post
before being over critical...just remember that this site is for everyone..not just people that own pit bulls or know a heck of alot about the breed, equipment, whatever... so the reason I put it up there..is because I personally feel its better for someone to call the police, for example, if they suspect a dog fighter, rather than ruling everything out because breaking sticks or treadmills couldn't possibly point to dog fighting...if someone sees a treadmill...they won't be calling the police saying oh, its dog fighting...most people can add one and one together...but if someone sees battered up dogs...multiple dogs tied in a backyard...with scratches and scars....and then there's a treadmill..well..there's more evidence than not...I hope I'm making myself clear.

Do you see what I mean? If someone is innocent..then they will be innocent and they really have nothing to worry about..but if they are not, wouldn't you rather have someone read the information and be more cautious rather than ruling everything out?

Just trying to justify my point....as I know people that do own treadmills and breaking sticks..see nothing wrong with them..but as was posted.. they may point to dog fighting, but of course they may not. To NOT post them on the site as part of the list would also be unfair..don't you agree?

I grasp what you are saying, but I do not agree that I should have to be publicly humaliated in front of my neighbors when cop cars blockade my house, detain me & possibly my husband, while ransacking my house & taking my dogs in for "thorough investigation" by some uneducated imbecile that calls themself an expert. I don't believe that I should have to be labeled "guilty" & then have to prove my innocence all because I own "dogfighting paraphenalia" & own multiple dogs. There's a lot more to being a "dogfighter" than this. If someone added up all the things I listed, then I'd be a for sure "dogfighter" according to those rules, but like I said, that's the farthest thing from the truth & I would NOT appreciated having AC & the police called on me by every nosey neighbor thinking they know it all. But that's my opinion.
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  #113  
Old 12-19-2006, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pitbulliest View Post
Do you see what I mean? If someone is innocent..then they will be innocent and they really have nothing to worry about..but if they are not, wouldn't you rather have someone read the information and be more cautious rather than ruling everything out?
Yes and no. Innocent doesn't necessarily mean you come away unscathed. In the Floyd Boudreaux case, as far as I know, his case still hasn't even gone to trial yet. But his dogs were dead within, what, a week? Two? I'm no FB, but that makes me wholly nervous. Whether he's innocent or not, he's already paid the price.

If you want to have the most impact, you should point to things which are almost certain to indicate a dog fighter and leave out the fluff. More and more pet owners are buying treadmills, hanging springpoles, investing in breaking sticks and the like. And its counter-productive to have people trying to educate about the sense and benefits to owning such equipment, while there are other sites which suggest that such are the tools of the dog fighter. Do you know what I mean?

I just feel that if you are going to try and educate people on an important topic like this, you shouldn't include things that would cause an innocent owner to possibly get fingered. You would hope that people would put two and two together, but in reality, do they? Is there any reason to believe they wouldn't look for any one of those items if they wanted to raise trouble for their neighbor? While I respect the message that you're trying to get across, and I know the site is for everybody, think like a Pit Bull owner. Do you want to even be looked at cross-eyed for hanging a springpole? Or playing flirtpole or tug with your dog in the yard? I don't. Its like saying one should suspect a Labrador owner who owns tennis balls.
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  #114  
Old 12-19-2006, 05:21 AM
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Mia just made me think of all the things I've got on hand that could get me in a world of poop. And ya know, 3 years ago, I wouldn't have had most of it. But some of those veterinary products can be a life-saver when you're poor. I give my own vaccinations and wormings, and have things like vetwrap, Rimadyl, Clavamox, etc around for those lovely emergencies.
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  #115  
Old 12-19-2006, 09:18 AM
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Pitbulliest.... I think your website is fine. If you have all those characteristics it doesn't mean you are a dog fighter, it just means you are likely to be a dogfighter or involved in breeding and training fighting dogs.

I used to be a Probation and Parole officer and when we did raids on homes and we found scales, lots of baggies, lots of guns and cash we most often found out after that the person was involved in selling drugs.....not everytime but the vast majority of the time the "signs" were right.
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  #116  
Old 12-19-2006, 06:22 PM
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"The presence of treadmills and springpoles (although this equipment may not necessarily indicate that it is used for dog fighting, as treadmills and springpoles are also used to condition dogs for weight pulling competitions or simply for exercise)."

By the way, thats quoted from my site in the list ^
looking at it again, I think I'll leave it for now because to be honest..I've been fair in explaining the other side of the story...

I do however, appreciate your guys' imput. When I'm doing some updates, perhaps I'll work on rewording it a bit more to make the point even clearer.

Thanx
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  #117  
Old 12-19-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitbulliest View Post
before being over critical...just remember that this site is for everyone..not just people that own pit bulls or know a heck of alot about the breed, equipment, whatever... so the reason I put it up there..is because I personally feel its better for someone to call the police, for example, if they suspect a dog fighter, rather than ruling everything out because breaking sticks or treadmills couldn't possibly point to dog fighting...if someone sees a treadmill...they won't be calling the police saying oh, its dog fighting...most people can add one and one together...but if someone sees battered up dogs...multiple dogs tied in a backyard...with scratches and scars....and then there's a treadmill..well..there's more evidence than not...I hope I'm making myself clear.

Do you see what I mean? If someone is innocent..then they will be innocent and they really have nothing to worry about..but if they are not, wouldn't you rather have someone read the information and be more cautious rather than ruling everything out?
Sorry, that is one of the more dangerously naive statements I hear made. Puts a lot of innocent people behind bars . . . And the police and regular animal control are generally pathetically unqualified to make decisions on who is and who isn't fighting dogs. That kind of knee-jerk alarmism is going to get some innocent dogs killed and some worthy, loving dog owners harrassed, labeled and ruined.
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  #118  
Old 12-19-2006, 08:32 PM
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Aside from what you just quoted from my other post,

Did you read what the point that is being questioned on my website actually says?

Again, here it is *sighs*:

"The presence of treadmills and springpoles (although this equipment may not necessarily indicate that it is used for dog fighting, as treadmills and springpoles are also used to condition dogs for weight pulling competitions or simply for exercise)."

I don't know where you live..but here..its impossible to make local authorities even remotely care about dog fighting issues...to actually see a dog fighter in court being punished for the actual crime he did is a rarity...the most they get is a slap on the wrist...perhaps the police and AC actually give a rat's ass where you live...lucky...

I think its unfair to say that a point on my list that's evidently backed up with a "BUT" statement will get someone's dogs killed and some innocent soul put into jail is a little far fetched and unfair, don't you think?
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  #119  
Old 12-19-2006, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amstaffer View Post
Pitbulliest.... I think your website is fine. If you have all those characteristics it doesn't mean you are a dog fighter, it just means you are likely to be a dogfighter or involved in breeding and training fighting dogs.
I used to be a Probation and Parole officer and when we did raids on homes and we found scales, lots of baggies, lots of guns and cash we most often found out after that the person was involved in selling drugs.....not everytime but the vast majority of the time the "signs" were right.
So now I'm not a dogfighter, but I'm just likely to be a dogfighter or involved in the breeding & training of fighting dogs?

Oh what a scary day............................
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  #120  
Old 12-19-2006, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitbulliest View Post
"The presence of treadmills and springpoles (although this equipment may not necessarily indicate that it is used for dog fighting, as treadmills and springpoles are also used to condition dogs for weight pulling competitions or simply for exercise)."

By the way, thats quoted from my site in the list ^
looking at it again, I think I'll leave it for now because to be honest..I've been fair in explaining the other side of the story...

I do however, appreciate your guys' imput. When I'm doing some updates, perhaps I'll work on rewording it a bit more to make the point even clearer.

Thanx
I respect what you are trying to do & I think you have a good heart for doing it. I just think that making lists like that are counterproductive & harm the innocent & ruin their families vs. actually leading to the indictment of dogfighters.
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