New rescue dog issues (springer spaniel) - can anyone help me?

[boagsta]

Hi,

I stumbled on these forums last week and I have to say I've found them very reassuring and helpful with everything I have read about so far. I'd like to see if anyone has any specific advice on a couple of issues that have come up with our new rescue dog.

His name is Fergie and he's an English Springer Spaniel that we adopted from our local cat and dog home on the 31st March. Unfortunately we dont have any history prior to the 15th March when he was admitted there. According to the vet, he could be anywhere between 2 & 6 years old so we dont even know his age either!

Firstly, he is a beautiful, amiable dog who appears to have been taken care of very well physically at least, as he is in perfect health and has been fantastic in almost every situation he has come across so far - he's housebroken, hes fine being left alone, he has had a great level of training (sit, stay, leave, paw, take it nice, etc), he's even happy to have young kids around him too as we found out when relatives visited during the week.
My fiancee and I cant believe how lucky we've been as we thought we'd probably have a lot of work to do with training a rescue dog from scratch.

The one thing we do have a problem with is that more and more he is growling either aggressively or defensively at us.
At first it was a little but its happening more and more each day.

Initially we noticed that when he was asleep on the floor he would tend to twitch around a bit as if in an active dream, but if he wakes up during this he growls very aggressively towards whoever is near. Initially we tried to tell him 'no' or 'quiet' when growling as he does respond to a lot of commands but we have learned that if we simply ignore him he stops being aggressive after a minute or so. The worst time this has happened so far was very confusing as he came to me wagging his tail happily as if looking for reassurance but when I tell him 'its ok' gently and pat him he immediately turns to the growling.

Increasingly now though he is growling at us, but me in particular, anytime we approach him in the house.

Today for instance I took him out for a good long country walk early in the morning, on which he was brilliant. He obviously enjoyed all the country smells and anytime we came to cross a busy road I asked him to sit until it was clear to cross - he did this every time without hesitation - and I told him how good he was and stroked him. On arriving home I asked him to sit outside the door until I get in and invite him, again no problem. I then took him through to the living room to give him a treat(which he didn't know I had) for being so good but this time when I leaned down to tell him he was a good boy - the growling.

I think an important thing I did notice is that later on when he came over to me for some attention, as I raised my hand to stroke his head he jumped away back as if he expected to be beaten or something. Now neither my fiancee or I would even think about doing such a thing - but I suspect poor Fergie has obviously been no stranger to it with his previous owner.

So - to cut a long story short (!!)

- Ignoring his growling definitely calms down the situation for now but can anyone help me with suggestions on how to prevent this sort of reaction in the first place given the apparently unusual circumstances in which it arises? This behaviour is only emerging now, Fergie let us be plenty affectionate towards him at first without any issues.

- If he has been trained to such a good level previously using what has obviously been a negative reinforcement method - can he be expected to react to 'clicker training', which from reading other posts seems to be an effective positive method?

- And on a slight tangent - the vet thinks due to his calmness in just about every other situation that he has previously been a working dog. Due to this he has absolutely no interest in the few toys we've bought for him - can anyone sugest alternatives? We've already got the ball with treats in the middle and he's just not bothered with it!! We dont want him to be bored while he's indoors.


Thank you for your time, your patience and any suggestions or advice you may have.
I'll post a pic of Fergie up later when I'm at home ('working' at the moment!)

Stewart B

[Doberluv]

It sure sounds as though he was mistreated. It is not a good idea to supress the growl. That only takes away his ability to communicate a warning to you. Find out what the triggers are and try to avoid them in an abrupt way. You'll have to desensatize him gradually to those triggers while he learns to trust you. Try not to react or make a fuss over him when he shows this.

I recommend that you find a certified behaviorist who uses the science of learning, who is educated in canine behaivor. Stay clear of anyone who uses aggressive means to treat this. The growling is a defense thing and the underlying issues need to be dealt with. Also, I recommend some books on aggression from people like Jean Donaldson, Emma Parsons, Ian Dunbar. I think this is a defense "aggression" thing stemming from fear. This is really beyond the scope of the Internet because we can not see exactly what is going on. There are a few good trainers here who may be able to offer some general tips for you.

Fergie sounds like a sweet thing and someone may well have been very heavy handed with him. It's hard to say for sure. But that's what it seems like to me.

Keep us posted and best wishes.

[otch1]

Hello Boagsta! In trying to draw an accurate picture of this dog, there's some missing info. You adopted him from a shelter but they won't give you the contact information for the person that turned him in? Or, was he picked up as a stray? He's having growling episodes upon waking, without a person near him, then continues to growl at the closest person? Because you've explained stoic behavior under most circumstances, he does not "play", the twitching and growling upon waking, the discomfort with you around his head and because he's a mature male Springer, I think it's helpful to rule out physical problems first. Hormonal issues, seretonin and norepinephrine level, other physical problems that only a blood draw will detect. There's usually a reason a very attractive purebred dog ends up at a shelter. This "calmness" you describe from him, then the irratic behavior, is a red flag when I evaluate a dog. I often reccommend video taping a dog when you're not present to see if there are signs of distress, growling at "nothing", circling, excessive sleeping, ect. Consult your vet first before contacting a behaviorist and see what he thinks about this.

[otch1]

Hi Doberluv! Was posting at same yime you were. Lol. Yes, a certified behaviorist would be an excellent step after ruling out a possible physical/nuerological disorder. Just have a hunch about this one.

[OutlineACDs]

I would suspect a possibility of seizures. This wouldn't necessarily explain all of the growling behavior, but the growling upon waking might be caused by that. Also hypothryroidism can cause aggression/behaviors/mood changes in dogs.

[Doberluv]

I'm so glad you chimed in Otch. I read that post too fast and didn't think hard enough. It does seem irratic and inconsistant doesn't it. And the sleeping. I sure hope whatever it is can be treated because he sounds like such a lovely dog. Do let us know what you find out. It is really disconcerting.

Outline...yes! That could be hypothyroidism indeed.

[boagsta]

Originally Posted by OutlineACDs

I would suspect a possibility of seizures. This wouldn't necessarily explain all of the growling behavior, but the growling upon waking might be caused by that. Also hypothryroidism can cause aggression/behaviors/mood changes in dogs.

I was a bit concerned too that it may be a seizure of some form but as I have epilepsy myself and a family Labrador also did - I'm quite familiar with the symptoms - we're pretty sure it is just a deep sleep and dreaming of chasing cats or something in this instance!!

Thanks for the tip on hypothyroidism though - I'll certainly investigate it.

[boagsta]

Originally Posted by otch1

You adopted him from a shelter but they won't give you the contact information for the person that turned him in? Or, was he picked up as a stray?

He's having growling episodes upon waking, without a person near him, then continues to growl at the closest person? Because you've explained stoic behavior under most circumstances

I think it's helpful to rule out physical problems first. Hormonal issues, seretonin and norepinephrine level, other physical problems that only a blood draw will detect.

This "calmness" you describe from him, then the irratic behavior, is a red flag when I evaluate a dog.

We adopted Fergie from the SSPCA shelter in Glasgow, Scotland. The handlers at the shelter were very helpful in telling us about his health and current behaviour but simply didn't have any info to offer on him from when they took him in on the 15th March. The shelter doesn't actually take the animals in directly, all the admin goes through local police stations etc, so any info would be very difficult to come by due to Data Protection etc.


His growling on waking is only if someone is very near him. I wouldnt say he's doing it for no reason, but more that we just dont know what his thinking is yet. Its as if he doesnt like being close to anyone when he wakes.
This wouldn't be a problem only he is, despite the impression I may have given, very attached to us and follows us all over the house. If we sit down on the sofa, he tends to lie down very close to us, often dozing off - then we have the catch 22 - do we move away so that if he wakes suddenly he will have plenty space around him - but risk waking him as we move!!?

Fergie was given a thorough medical by the vets at the shelter and given a clean bill of health, although admittedly I dont know if that includes blood tests - I'll need to check my documentation when I return home.


ANd when you say 'red flag' - in what way? as in a cause for concern in terms of behaviour, health or otherwise?

Thanks again

[boagsta]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

It sure sounds as though he was mistreated. It is not a good idea to supress the growl. That only takes away his ability to communicate a warning to you. Find out what the triggers are and try to avoid them in an abrupt way. You'll have to desensatize him gradually to those triggers while he learns to trust you. Try not to react or make a fuss over him when he shows this.

I recommend that you find a certified behaviorist who uses the science of learning, who is educated in canine behaivor. Stay clear of anyone who uses aggressive means to treat this. The growling is a defense thing and the underlying issues need to be dealt with. Also, I recommend some books on aggression from people like Jean Donaldson, Emma Parsons, Ian Dunbar. I think this is a defense "aggression" thing stemming from fear. This is really beyond the scope of the Internet because we can not see exactly what is going on. There are a few good trainers here who may be able to offer some general tips for you.

Fergie sounds like a sweet thing and someone may well have been very heavy handed with him. It's hard to say for sure. But that's what it seems like to me.

Keep us posted and best wishes.

Thanks for the tip - I suppose if he thinks he's not allowed to growl then his next defence is to go straight to biting? We've already found that just ignoring the growl and looking away from him diffuses the situation.

Do you think that just ignoring his growling like this will lead to him not doing it over time (obviously unless he feels genuinely threatened!) In terms of desensitizing we're at a bit of a loss as its when I'm trying to show affection towards him that he seems to growl. Its difficult for me as I want so much for him to see that he can trust me but in the current situation its as if the only way he will is if I have no contact with him at all! I've been reading a lot on other posts about body language and I've been very conscious as to how I carry myself when I'm with him.

I'll definitely look into some reading on behaviour though. Thanks

[boagsta]

Just a couple of things that I didn't mention that may have a bearing on his behaviour as well as his current health -

As he was only in the shelter for a period of two weeks he did not complete his course of injections - his booster was given at the vets only last week. We did notice he was a little under-the-weather for a couple of days as a reaction to that.
As well as this, as a policy of rehoming from the SSPCA they have a requirement that he be neutered. While we don't want to this until he is properly settled - is this likely to alter his behaviour in any way?

In terms of trying to paint a picture of how he reacts when he is growling - when someone calls his name 'normally', you can visibly see his head raise, his eyes light up, and his ears prop up to listen.
But when he's 'not in the mood' I can tell almost straight away now - he hunches his shoulders, his head goes down and he looks up at me from under his eyes if that makes sense.

I'd describe it as an almost human behaviour - he seems to love visitors and meeting new people, but when presented with his normal family, its as if he just cant be bothered sometimes and is growling to tell us this!