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Old 04-07-2007, 01:53 AM
jupiter11600 jupiter11600 is offline
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Default Why would a dog not understand "No"?

So wiggles doesn't understand no... When he is getting into something, or doing something inappropriate... we give a firm no, and even a loud clap of our hands an he just sorta looks at us like what? We are working on his training, but when he is doing something not safe for himself or not appropriate, We can yell, make noise, clap, no, anything and it doesn't phase him a bit. For example, If he starts playing with the cats, we will say no, makes nose, anything he sort of gives us the "What?" look, or most of the time just ignores and keeps at it... We do the whole a tired puppy is a good puppy thing and tire him out, but even then he just doesn't seem to get it when I tell him no... I don't want to have to physically stop him all the time, but there is a few times when I have had to grab his collar and drag him away from something......
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Old 04-07-2007, 02:04 AM
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Cheetah Cheetah is offline
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Dogs aren't born learning english, so naturally, a dog is not going to understand what the word "no" means. If you want them to know the word, it takes time.

Personally, mine only know that word as a no-reward mark, not a correction. For verbal corrections, I just make a loud-ish noise that sounds like a firm "Ah, ah!"
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Old 04-07-2007, 02:15 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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For "no" to have any type of meaning, it has to be paired with something...usual typical thing is an aversive. It has to be harsh enough to make the dog afraid of you when you say, "no" harshly. That way he'll stop a behavior in order to avoid the fear or pain which has been associated with the word. There is such a thing as a no reward marker. However there is more to it than just using a word. It has to be actively taught...something you can learn about. I don't like training with a lot of sterness and "no's," but prefer using positive training methods. Prevention of the dog getting into things you don't want, setting up his environment the best you can to prevent behavior you don't want, offering distractions, showing alternative behavior, preferably ones which are incompatible with the thing he is engaging in. I teach alternative behaviors actively, such as "leave it." any cue or word has to be paired enough times with something to take on any meaning. The dog still doesn't understand the meaning of the word like we do. He only learns by association. I don't like to use harshness or cause my dog to fear or distrust me in any way. That is why I prefer positive method training.

I recommend you read some good books. One which is my favorite is Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. Another is The Power of Positive Training by Pat Miller. They'll teach you a lot to get started on the right track. You'll find it a lot easier to develop a well mannered/trained dog who is happy and a bond between you that can't be matched IMO with a lot of "no's" and a lot of sterness.
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
One which is my favorite is Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
I just want to second the idea of getting that book, it is great! It explains no reward markers perfectly. A lot of people think that dogs know what no means right off the bat but a dog needs to learn the word. I agree that most dogs associate the word with pain or fear because after the owner yelled no a few times and the dog did not listen they went over and whacked them or gave them a leash jerk or clapped hands at their face so that's what they associate no with and that's not something I would want to do with my dog. No could also be the no reward marker but things like Ah-Ah, and hey hey are more commonly used. Definitely get that book and read it from cover to cover it really helped to understand exactly how the dogs mind works.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:01 AM
jupiter11600 jupiter11600 is offline
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I'll have to check that one out.

I've tried a few different voice things for him, just meant sort of no in general :-) He's a good boy and is learning fast, but I don't want him to fear no or whatever I use, I just want him to stop.

A example of one of the things is I can be sitting on the couch working on the laptop and he'll come over and get in my face/lap and start being goofy/licking/nibbling on my nose. I try not to encourage him being in my lap ever, but he still does it and when i tell him no or off (He knows off, but ignores and down i use for well, a down :-) ) it just makes him more happy and playful. He gets walks, Tons of tennis ball play, chews, etc... Another thing is when I'm out doing yard work he decides hey shes busy, I'll go dig!!! So I'll yell "Hey, Nock it off!" and most of the time he will ignore me or go right back to doing it...

After writing this I am thinking he's just a attention *****... ha!

I don't so much mind the holes, he does it in the same spot every time, but my hubby doesn't appreciate it so I try to discourage it. Then damage control normally consists of Hey at least it was the same spot as last time!!! I think once we get this place fixed up more I'm going to get him a sandbox to dig in.... I was reading that in the Petiquette book I checked out the other night, to give him a safe "Dig" zone to discourage other areas. A baby pool with sand i think would probably work well!

*Sigh* Pibble puppies are *HARD* work compared to the seniors! They pretty much knew everything as far as no, hey, stop that already, or household manners that were acceptable or not.... As I always say, If they had any big bad problems, they wouldn't have made it to seniors!

Do you guys have any suggestions on books for training a service dog? They suggest *NOT* doing group training classes for a service dog, and sadly (Frustratingly) I don't have the money for a private trainer due to the limited funds of my SSD. I contacted my local service dog places, and there words were "While we do help with owner's pets in training to become a service dogs, We do not allow pit bull or pit bull mixes into our program" *Sighs* He's never shown signs of aggression to a human ever, and loves most other dogs unless the dog challenges him first (We had met a neighbors male aggressive dog by mistake in the hallway of the apartments... Wiggles didn't start anything but in true pittie fashion, He was going to finish it)

In order to find a dog that would meet there approval in breeds, I'd have to give up one of my dogs thanks to the 3 dog law in my new city, and well I refuse to do that. I didn't go out to find wiggles, He just came along sort of like barry... Funny how that happens and they are even better then dogs you search out IMO. He's got a lot of the personality and smarts for what I need... Just needs training that I am not so sure how to do everything in and I want him to do so much more then barry did. For a few years now I kept telling fred, Maybe someday I'd have a pibble for a service dog, I like bully breed personalities, Just not the size of a lot of them, so they were ideal IMO, someday, and then we got wiggles! *Sigh* so just now training training and MORE TRAINING!

The really funny thing about this group though, is they show a Aussie and a dal on there page. Now I'm not trying to slam these breeds, But both scored a lot lower then Pit bulls on the American temperment testing site.

Thanks!

Last edited by jupiter11600; 04-07-2007 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:11 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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Quote:
A example of one of the things is I can be sitting on the couch working on the laptop and he'll come over and get in my face/lap and start being goofy/licking/nibbling on my nose. I try not to encourage him being in my lap ever, but he still does it and when i tell him no or off (He knows off, but ignores and down i use for well, a down :-) ) it just makes him more happy and playful. He gets walks, Tons of tennis ball play, chews, etc... Another thing is when I'm out doing yard work he decides hey shes busy, I'll go dig!!! So I'll yell "Hey, Nock it off!" and most of the time he will ignore me or go right back to doing it...
With attention seeking behavior, when you look at, speak to, say, "no"...it's attention, just the very thing the dog is looking for. The best way to let him know that you're not going to play or give attention just now, is to NOT. LOL. Ignore him absoltuely. When he finally gives up and goes and chews on his chew toy or whatever, get up from your seat and go give him a yummy treat and lots of attention. If you are consistant and carry this on for quite some time, he'll get the message that there's a time for play and attention and there's a time to be by himself. It's been working for him up to now, so he's going to keep trying for a while. Everyone must be consistant who interacts with him.

Any behavior that a dog does, he does because it works for him....gets him what he wants. You have to ask yourself, why is he doing this? What about it is working for him? What does he get out of this? How can I remove it? (if it's an undesireable behavior) It can't work for him ever or he'll try again. He must find that something else works better to get attention.

I again strongly urge you to get that book, Culture Clash. My only regret about it is that I didn't read it a lot sooner than I did.
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:12 PM
jupiter11600 jupiter11600 is offline
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hehe... Well on the topic of ignore... We tried that at first, so he pushed his way onto and sat and curled up on my lap... 55lb MOOSE... so he figures you ain't ignoring me woman!
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:51 AM
animalcrackers animalcrackers is offline
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To add, instead of simply saying "No", tell him what to do. For example, if you want him to get off the couch, say "Off" instead of "No".
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:17 AM
jupiter11600 jupiter11600 is offline
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Ok, I'm going through 18 pages of library books now and I've already found the pat miller... hoping for the other :-) Thanks guys!

And on the off... He does know that one already... Drives me insane when people tell him down instead of off as he does also know how to do a down... We are trying tying him up when we have visitors and ignoring him until he can act like a normal doggie rather then a crazy boy... So far so good with that... otherwise he freaks out like OH NEW PEOPLE OH BOY OH BOY!
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Old 04-08-2007, 04:58 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I think "no" can turn into a real 'nagging' word , and as you are seeing, when we get nagged, what do we do? usually ignore it *vbg*.

I teach "leave it", and then move them on to do something else. I totally agree with the attention getter,,ANY attention is better than no attention.

Tho you can't afford privates, I would really recommend you both go into a group class, it could benefit you both ALOT, and tho you say Service does not suggest group training, well ANY training is better than no training at all.

Just some ideas
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