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Old 03-28-2007, 02:08 AM
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~Jessie~ ~Jessie~ is offline
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Originally Posted by tempura tantrum View Post
Gah. This is just ridiculous.

Obviously the breeding was planned- and obviously, this person doesn't know the first thing about establishing a respectable breeding program.

For one, it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that you could look at a 5 month old PUPPY and already determine his good points and bad points- determine that he is the BEST match for your particular bitch. That where she falters, he excells, and that he compliments her. Nevermind the fact that you can't test for hip dysplasia or patellar luxation until the animal is two.

And in a breed where these problems RUN RAMPANT.

I also love how people will say their dog has perfect confirmation... when the dog has never been shown or evaluated by a judge. Argh.

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Old 03-28-2007, 03:59 AM
IliamnasQuest IliamnasQuest is offline
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Just to add a touch more reality to this situation ..

I am very much into health testing and think ALL breeders should health test their dogs for the appropriate genetic diseases prior to breeding. Khana just had her OFA x-rays taken today even though I may never breed her. To me, if you're a breeder and you are not health testing your breeding stock, you are IRRESPONSIBLE and definitely a BYB (at best).

So I took a look at the pedigree listed for the bitch in this situation (the pedigree is on one of the scattered webpages). No pedigree was listed for the male puppy used in the breeding.

Then I went to the OFA website where the results are listed. I looked into all the dogs on the pedigree. I even tried some variations of names (like "Beaver Creek" and "Beavercreek" just in case). This is what I came up with - the information in parantheses is what I added in (sorry about the way the "pedigree" is listed, it's how I found it on the website):

Black Tear of Cheyene (No OFA certifications listed)

Sire: Beaver Creek Doc SH (No OFA certifications listed)
Dam: Christian's Cricket (No OFA certifications listed)

Sweetwaters Blackboy Drae Blk (OFA hips: G, CERF 2000 category D, probably PPM)
Chuck Wagon Parker Chlt (No OFA certifications listed)

Beaver Creeks hammerin Bepee Blk (OFA hips: E, CERF 2000)
Kim's Yauhannah Baby Blk (No OFA certifications listed)

Gread grandsires:
Rushcreek's Bronco Chief MH Blk (OFA hips: E, CERF 1993 - sire to Sweetwaters Blackboy Drae)
FC AFC Hammerin' Hawk Blk (OFA hips: E - sire to Beaver Creeks Hammerin Bepee)
Hot Fudge Sudnay Chlt (No OFA certifications listed)
Santee River Shane Blk (No OFA certifications listed)

Great granddams:
Beaver Creek's Monkey Blk (OFA hips: G, CERF 1996, 1997 - dam to Sweetwaters Blackboy Drae)
Troublesome Dandy MH Blk (OFA hips: G, CERF 1996, 1999 - dam to Beaver Creeks Hammerin Bepee)
Queen Of My Heart Chlt (No OFA certifications listed)
Santee River Abigail Blk (OFA hips: G, CERF 1993)

In summary:
15 dogs listed (including bitch that was bred).
7 dogs with OFA hip numbers (47%)
6 dogs with CERF's, one of those is diagnosed w/a condition (40% clear, 33% non-diagnosed)
NO OFA elbows.
NO OFA patellas.
NO OFA thyroid.
Only 33% of the first two generations in "Cheyenne's" pedigree is OFA'd hips.

And only four of the 15 dogs have any sort of title .. 27% are titled.

Those numbers just aren't very high. This is not a dog that should have been bred based on background, as far as I can tell.

Like I said, let's hope for spay/neuter requirements, limited registrations, and more consideration before any more breeding is done.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Old 03-28-2007, 04:42 AM
moe moe is offline
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This "breeder" had every opportunity to do things right. the "breeder" could have given it time to have health tests done, shown the dogs and get them titled, the "breeder" could then have come onto this forum announced a PLANNED litter and we would have all have praised their glory for doing such a fine job, and would have earned respect from all quarters, instead the "breeder" decided to breed from dogs not of the age to breed from, not had health tests, not titled the dogs, and this was all PLANNED from the offset, IMO the OP made the post to upset members on here, as they KNEW full well they had mated the dogs INTENTIONALLY no oops litter here whatsoever, and now they want us all to think kindly upon them from what I can make out the OP has been having financial problems in the past, so these pups are a way of making money, I hope the dam copes with the birthing process, I hope the pups are OK for their sake not the "breeders" and as for the "breeder" SHAME ON YOU.

Old 03-28-2007, 06:16 AM
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Red_ACD_for_me Red_ACD_for_me is offline
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WOW! Lots of responses after I went to bed! I just have to say that this is the second forum I have been on where the OP's have been a long time member and have added their opinions in many threads learned far more than they have showed by still allowing there dogs to have an accidental breeding I would be ashamed to post such a thing
Old 03-28-2007, 08:35 AM
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yes, what has been done is done. I wish you much luck! And you should get some good advice, instead. Because she is going to have them, you will learn from your mistakes. ya know? You probably will watch it next time. All you want is advice, and you should get that. I know most people are upset, but, its done, so we can't do anything about it now. So, I hope you get some more advice, because she is in labor now, and you need all the advice you can get, I am sorry I haven't helped you any. I too am ashamed at such a thing, but I do believe you need advice.

Thank you Christine!

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a child who never
grows old and who therefore is always available to love and be loved
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:57 AM
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The fact that the OP would wait until the poor bitch is due to whelp to seek advice is sooo...irresponsible to say the least. Common sense would tell anyone in this situation to seek the advice of a vet or better yet, RESPONSIBLE breeders of my chosen breed.....

This poor bitch was treated as an afterthought. If in fact, the OP is using a library computer, isn't any advice offered here going to be a day late and a dollar short to start with??

These *cough*gag* breeders make me sick.
Old 03-28-2007, 09:25 AM
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Miakoda Miakoda is offline
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Originally Posted by Mach1girl View Post
People, what's done is DONE!

Been there, done that.....C'mon people. Did any of you know since she has been a member here for awhile, that her dog was pregnant? THAT was the time to rant and demeanor, not now. Now is the time to make sure she is ready for these pups and she knows what to do and expect. And she REALLY needs to know that you are here for her if she needs you, as I once had to do.
Obviously, she KNOWS that our shelters are full of dogs, they are getting PTS every day, especially this breed, she had to have known this before the breeding took place, so, FOR the PUPPIES sake,and the mommas sake, stick around and assist.
I know no one has been totally rude YET, just wanted to say my piece before it happens. This is a time that members need to stick together, there is always a later for what need be. Hope all goes well, and hope all stay healthy.
Next time, be more careful...
Afterwards, do what you will...
Oh geez. Do you really want me to post all your contradicting lies on how your female got pregnant? Intentional, accident, gift from hubby, etc. etc. Don't even got there.

Second, I'm with the vast majority that think something should've been done to prevent this litter. The simplest thing would've been to keep them separated & I've got a friend with a 5 year old girl who understands that concept. Funny how many adults don't. But since that wasn't the case, a spay/abort should've been done. And the male neutered while at it.

Third, I'm tired of excuses. All these "accidental" bybs make themselves out to be victims. Grow up.
Old 03-28-2007, 11:20 AM
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joce joce is offline
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I'm just dissapointed.

Labbreeder came here and knew nothing and weeks later she was telling people about responcible breeding-then you do this

I also think ooops it was a mistake is a huge out-having had intact dogs all my life we have never had an ooops litter-not even a almost. And I know if it ever did happen that dog would be fixed the next day!

She knew what she should have done and knew her choices-its just sad.

As far as not everyone hip testing etc-if a dogs line is proven I have no problme buying form someone who doesn't health test. I know a couple people out here with breeds they ahve hunted or herded with for years-these farm dogs are pushed to the edge and if they have old dogs doing good at there place I won't be upsett they didn't test hips. But this is completely diffrent with someone breeding labs in there backyard.

If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain
dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few
persons -James Thurber
Old 03-28-2007, 11:44 AM
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If it was a oops litter, than being the reponsible breeder you claim to be

you would have an emergency spay

Old 03-28-2007, 12:00 PM
J's crew J's crew is offline
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Another thing that upsets me is she said in the past that her dogs were outside tied up. How does she know for sure that Gunner is the sire? If the breeding took place when she was in heat, tied up, any male could be the sire.

Thanks Steveinski!
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