J's Crew

[J's crew]

Originally Posted by bubbatd

I think it's time that both of you take this to PMing . It's going no where here --- except getting ugly .

Point taken Grammy.

[RD]

Thanks, J's. I didn't interpret your posts as a personal attack, I was just hoping you wouldn't interpret mine that way. It's so hard to tell what people really mean over the internet so with touchy subjects I often feel the need to clarify.

My question is this, would anyone buy a pup with HD in the dam and the last couple of generations? Why are elbows different?

Personally, I wouldn't. But I'm not in Rottweilers. 40***37; of MY breed is not affected by DJD so it is very easy to find a dog without the condition. Even normal dogs can produce DJD offspring, no? What is the heritability of DJD? Do affected dogs consistently produce affected offspring or carriers, as it is with things like CEA? Because with hip dysplasia, most dogs in my breed ARE carriers of the disease.

I just wouldn't feel comfortable about cutting out half of the potential breeding animals in the breed over this issue. It seems more realistic to breed the best specimens possible and work through the existing health issue that plagues the breed, rather than cull them all affected dogs and greatly reduce the size of the gene pool.

My final comment on this subject.

This entire topic, J's Crew, was not in any way started to educate someone. It was started to make sure everyone knew 2 things:

that I have never produced anything of merit as a breeder (fact)
And that I plan to breed my bitch who is DJD1 in one elbow according to OFA (also fact)

None of this is unknown information, however, you felt it was your duty to make this known and cause this discussion to run YET AGAIN on this board.

Had it been intended as an educational opportunity, it would have been couched in a much different manner than it has been.

Now, if you want to go start your own educational thread about Elbow Dysplasia in the Rottweiler breed, and why it is a good decision to remove any and all animals who don't pass all health testing from the gene pool, be my guest.

I'm done with this one. Do not PM me.

I don't always see things Red's way, I don't really care for Rott's myself. I like them, I just will probably never own one. I don't care for breeding with elbow DJD, which i know has many causes and not all that uncommon in large breeds.

I do know that Red does her homework, I can tell that she has very carefully thought this out. She doesn't hide behind a mask or make excuses. I love working dogs, I wish she had IPO or SchH titles, but that in no way means she doesn't work with her dogs and her breed. I can tell she loves and puts a ton of time in. I haven't heard anything negative about this dogs temperment, which is priority #1 in my book. I don't know much about DJD in rott's, but from what I've read in this thread, it appears minor DJD in one elbow isn't an automatic deal breaker.

I think this thread would be better served talking about djd in rott's in general rather than her breeding decision. One thing I can tell about Red is that she does her homework. Someone will always find reason or fault in a breeder's decision to breed, so that doesn't suprise me that someone has in this case.

[RD]

Well, Red, I'm sorry that I had questions not pertaining to you or your dogs directly. I was curious about the disease, I didn't know it would bother you. It won't happen again, but there's no need to snap at J's Crew who simply answered my questions. T'was my fault.

[Gempress]

Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers

My final comment on this subject.

This entire topic, J's Crew, was not in any way started to educate someone. It was started to make sure everyone knew 2 things:

that I have never produced anything of merit as a breeder (fact)
And that I plan to breed my bitch who is DJD1 in one elbow according to OFA (also fact)

None of this is unknown information, however, you felt it was your duty to make this known and cause this discussion to run YET AGAIN on this board.

Had it been intended as an educational opportunity, it would have been couched in a much different manner than it has been.

Now, if you want to go start your own educational thread about Elbow Dysplasia in the Rottweiler breed, and why it is a good decision to remove any and all animals who don't pass all health testing from the gene pool, be my guest.

I'm done with this one. Do not PM me.

So the whole point of this thread was to just tell people two bits of information without discussing anything? And if it's not unknown information, why is it such a big deal for J's Crew to have said it?

Please don't interpret this as an attack. I have absolutely no clue about rottie breeding. I was following this in the hopes that it would be educational. Now I'm just very confused.

J's Crew, do you mind starting a seperate thread? Or PMing me about it?

[Mach1girl]

I have a question........and this IS NOT an attack, it is just a question that always comes to mind when I read/think/hear about a breeding.

And Red doesnt have to answer it, anyone can.

But Red states that if this breeding indeed does result in being a mistake years to come from now, then she would be the first to admit it.

Now tell me, does admitting it solve the problems?? In the mean time, while the breeder is admitting the problems, what is happening on the sidelines??Are the pups walking stiff shouldered and in pain? Are they having to be put down at a young age due to suffering?

I of course as everyone knows have had an accidental litter, and I wonder the same thing. What if? What if in one year, or two year time something genetic pops up in the pups?

I thankfully added in my contract that the pup would be bought back, and would be cared for by me if it were to have any medical problems caused by genetics. I would treat the dog, and make the proper decicion when the times comes.

But I hear this preached so darn much by so many people, then they turn around, do it and say "I'll be the first to admit" but what good does that do??

Again, no ditsing, just wondering.

[MelissaCato]

But Red states that if this breeding indeed does result in being a mistake years to come from now, then she would be the first to admit it.

Admitting it is easy to say. The pup's that are infected suffer from the program not the breeder. Through science and bio it's a fact Penny will produce over all more than 50% DJD1 in her young even with a "Perfect Stud". As my opinion it's better to keep her out of that gene pool. The new owners won't know either till tests at certain ages well after they are family.. just like RR did with Penny.... or a pop of the joint fetching a fast ball that the kids threw that leads to surgery or worse. How can you Guarantee Health when you don't breed it? I don't understand.

[Sunnierhawk0]

RedRye,

I hope your breeding with Penny goes great. Be sure to keep us updated with pictures! Who are you breeding her too?

And ok now I must interject...

People who are not in the Rottie breed need to take a BIG 2 steps back. If you did research OFA you WOULD notice that the breed is almost half effected with DJD. Its a problem the breed is working on to fix, but its still a issue. Sure go ahead and look up my girl's OFA info ( still waiting to get her results) you will see her Dam and her sire both have *1* elbow that has DJD1. You can usually get a DJD1 on a Rottweiler from just general wear and tear of the body.... not saying its not genetic, but a DJD2 would worry me MUCH more than a DJD1. Would I breed a DJD1 in a elbow if my girl came back with one? I wouldn't hesisitate.

Before you all jump on red you need to take a step back and realize *most* of you are not in the breed, and it would be like saying Oh pug people shouldnt breed becaue they dont OFA at all! Same with bulldog people! Every breed has a issue that they must work with, and elbows are one for Rotties.

Stop attacking. She is going to do whats best for her dog, no matter what people on a internet board say. Good Luck Red.

[ravennr]

Originally Posted by Sunnierhawk0

RedRye,

I hope your breeding with Penny goes great. Be sure to keep us updated with pictures! Who are you breeding her too?

And ok now I must interject...

People who are not in the Rottie breed need to take a BIG 2 steps back. If you did research OFA you WOULD notice that the breed is almost half effected with DJD. Its a problem the breed is working on to fix, but its still a issue. Sure go ahead and look up my girl's OFA info ( still waiting to get her results) you will see her Dam and her sire both have *1* elbow that has DJD1. You can usually get a DJD1 on a Rottweiler from just general wear and tear of the body.... not saying its not genetic, but a DJD2 would worry me MUCH more than a DJD1. Would I breed a DJD1 in a elbow if my girl came back with one? I wouldn't hesisitate.

Before you all jump on red you need to take a step back and realize *most* of you are not in the breed, and it would be like saying Oh pug people shouldnt breed becaue they dont OFA at all! Same with bulldog people! Every breed has a issue that they must work with, and elbows are one for Rotties.

Stop attacking. She is going to do whats best for her dog, no matter what people on a internet board say. Good Luck Red.

Good posting!