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  #21  
Old 05-02-2005, 08:28 PM
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juliefurry juliefurry is offline
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I love your suggestions, and I didn't not take them personally in any way. I know i'm sort of an idiot when it comes to training dogs (Mack knows sit and he only does that like half the time we tell him). As for obedience training her it is sort of tricky. She has arthritis in her back legs so sitting is hard for her. We had her on meds which seemed to work for awhile. She's a very free spirited dog and if she doesn't want to do anything she won't do it. I'm not worried about us getting snapped at what I worry about is the children. With two small children I'm worried she might one day snap at them and that they won't be fast enough to get their hand, arm, leg, or face out of her mouth. My husband is more of the one that wants to take her back to the shelter, I would rather pay the money to have her trained. You can see she could be a wonderful dog, she probably just had a rough past, and it's unfair to give up on her without exhausting all the options. I did get a hold of the shelter where we rescued her from and they said we could bring her back but she would most likely just be euthanized. I am trying very hard to talk him into letting her stay.
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2005, 08:36 PM
Saje Saje is offline
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This is another great site http://www.clickerlessons.com/lessons.html for training. My other fave. It's worth a read too. Not nearly as long as the other one! maybe it will help with some of her training. I really hope you don't have to get ride of her.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:12 PM
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CreatureTeacher CreatureTeacher is offline
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I definitely appreciate your concerns about the kids, but really if you stick to the resource control you will see the difference it can make. If I thought your dog was doing these things out of some sort of nasty temper, I'd absolutely tell you so. But as I see it, she's just throwing a little tantrum which can be easily corrected.

I've trained several dogs that aren't comfortable in a "sit", including arthritic dogs and bony-butts like greyhounds. With those dogs I tend to use "down" instead, and I also teach "bow" (butt in the air, elbows on the floor) which stretches those muscles and pretty much stops them doing bad things. You have to be creative when redirecting behavior. But resource control will also help with obedience; it will make her more eager to please you. And those positive dog training books will help you teach her in a new way, which will probably result in her being a lot more receptive to learning.

Let your husband know that I understand and appreciate your concerns about the dog and the kids, and that I honestly believe that we can make a home for Shelby and the kids there together.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2005, 11:30 PM
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juliefurry juliefurry is offline
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Ok, the collar is off while she is in the house. I have also started on the command sit (which she is learning with flying colors). I just started it like five minutes ago and she's already I'd say 95% consistant with sitting. Obviously she had been trained to sit before (either that or she's that eager to get the dog kibble treat). Hopefully my husband will change his mind by tomorrow morning, which is when he wants to return her to the shelter. I'm going to have him read creatureteacher's posts and hopefully he'll allow me the chance to work with her. I think she is just a very sensitive dog and doesn't like to hear people yell or see people get mad. It just makes me mad that I know she's a good dog and that she's had a rough life in her past home. She cowers almost everytime you are standing over her and go to pet her (she will always cower unless you are at eye level with her). She shouldn't have to get euthanized because of stupid people. I'm sort of hoping for a miracle here because if she goes back she'll probably get euthanized and my husband is sort of anxious to get her out. I'm hoping CreatureTeacher's posts will help change his mind.
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2005, 10:00 AM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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You can tell him you're going to start addressing him as "Killer" if he sends Shelby to her death . . . Sometimes a little drama can save the day.

It does sound as though poor Shelby was an abused dog. Your husband might actually be afraid of her. I had an ex-boyfriend who was short with Bear. I found out from his sister that he'd been afraid of big dogs since he was a little kid. If she hadn't told me I'd never have known though.
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  #26  
Old 05-03-2005, 10:21 AM
YorkieLover YorkieLover is offline
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I love all the responses and suggestions for this issue. I know one of the 2 boys we adopted was very snappish with me when I tried to put him in his crate... My husband was like he's going to have to go if he's snapping at you. Well I talked to a trainer and they told me to leave my hand there and not pull back or yell at him. I did it twice and he didn't even bite/nip me just all attitude. He hasn't done it since. How long have you had your dog? The reason I ask is because some of the behaviors are exactly like ours that we adopted and it's been 3 months and he is finally coming around. He will probably always be skittish to loud noises, arguing and even quick motions towards him. It saddens me that he is like this but we learn to work around it. But it also makes me very happy when I see the progress he has made, like running to the door when I say "daddy's home"....
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2005, 12:22 PM
maui maui is offline
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(Killer!? Good one! lol)

Julie, What a great dog you have. One that is willing to try new behaviors! Sure, they are scary, but he is expressive. After some positive training, think of how much fun the expressive side will be when he offers fun behaviors.

Emma is eloquent in her bluntness. I enjoyed reading the post about what to do. I have give a little testimonial to the advice.

We have had resource guarding issues pop up with Ranger. He tries all kinds of behaviors on for size. I would get so scared. Then, a behaviorist explained to me, "He's a teenager, keep up the training, be confident, and it will pass. Whatever you do, don't yell. Wait for the expected result." Then they showed us how to handle it.

Ranger resource guards his parents. Meaning, he guards us while other dogs are around. If the dogs don't follow rules, he tells them off. Fortunately, he has bite inhibition. If we have food or toys, it's worse. If I ever yelled at him when he acts this way, his emotions would escalate. The next time his reaction to the other dog would be even worse. The instructions were to react before Ranger would escalate. Use polite, happy voices, etc.

With a lot of careful training he is now able to play at the dog park class we take while I have a toy in my pocket and he doesn't come out fighting with the dog who says hi to me. It has taken some time, but it works. I'll tell ya' we followed a lot of the advice Emma mentions above. NILF, separating him from his trouble (Not easy because we couldn't remove ourselves, but we stopped taking food, & toys, which only reduced his trust to his regular buddies.), using happy voice, rarely saying the word no, etc. all really really works wonders.

I'm a big fan of group classes as well. It can't hurt to take some time together and learn some commands. Sounds like you are trying really hard and congrats on the sit command.

Maui
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2005, 01:07 PM
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juliefurry juliefurry is offline
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Well Shelby is going to stay here, atleast for today. I am trying the NILIF approach, and I have started the isolation therapy. She snapped at my husband last night, this time for no reason (as he explains it). So she is running out of time, hopefully he won't take her to the shelter without me being there. If he doesn't take her by himself I will have until next monday (my next day off of work that the shelter is open) to get some improvement out of her. It's very stressful over here, but I'm trying my best. I don't want her to go back to the shelter. We almost drove her back today but I started crying in the truck when we were driving her there (it's over an hour drive) and we had to turn back because we didn't have any kleenex so she's safe. I hope that all the pressure won't freak her out and scare her from learning. I'm trying my best to get her to stay with us. Although my husband's like "oh we can go get a puppy from my friends lab when he breeds her". I don't like the fact that he is either trying to make me feel better about giving her up, or bribe me into giving her up. It doesn't matter if he gets me 100 puppies they still won't be my Shelby!!!!!
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2005, 01:29 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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See, a little drama . . .

Keep working. Shelby sounds like a wonderful dog and you obviously love her.

You just tell your husband that even if he does send Shelby off to die you don't want any of his friend's back-yard-bred dogs! (Assuming he's not a reputable breeder - in which case he'd be wary of giving your husband a pup after taking Shelby back to the shelter summarily.)

I'd never let someone have a pup out of one of my dogs after they'd taken a dog back to certain death at a shelter!
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2005, 02:15 PM
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juliefurry juliefurry is offline
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Yeah the guy is a backyard breeder. He hasn't had his dog checked for hip dysplasia or anything. I'm not gonna give up on Shelby. I doubt my husband would take her in by himself though. My father did that to me when I moved back in with them and my husband knows how I feel about my father for doing that to me. I doubt my husband wants me to feel the same about him.
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