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Old 01-19-2007, 06:51 PM
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My Aussie Terrier is affectionate and most of the time just gives the odd little playfull bite. My problem is when I try to stop her she gets real mad and really attacks me she has drwn blood this morning on my hand. I have tried turning her over on her back when she is like this by the scruff of the neck and hold her there until she gets quieter but it is not wooking I have tried just putting her down and ignoring her, I have made loud noises with a chain in a tin, but do not always have the tin by me. I am getting really worried she is nearly 11 weeks old I have had her from 8 weeks. I want a well behaved dog and I know this is the important time for her to stop this behaviour, she has piles chewy things. I love her so much and as I said most of the time she is fine but a couple times a day she will try and get the better of me , well the last time she did because my blood was going everywhere so i had to put her down. Do hope there are other idea's i could try. I do not want her to be dominant. In all other things like chewing carpet etc I just have to growl deep in my throat and say NO and she stops she has learnt that in the last week. Someone please answer. thanks Olivia.
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:07 PM
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When you say you try and stop her HOW are you trying to stop her? Grabbing her by the scruff and rolling her over isn't going to help. It's probably going to make things a lot worse.

What I would do first is ignore her. Dramatically. If she nips get up and walk away and don't pay any attention to her. She is trying to get your attention and any attention including negative attention like scruff shakes is rewarding her.

If that doesn't work find a place where you can give her a puppy time out. If she nips you pick her up without saying anythign or looking at her and put her here. I've always used the bathroom as a timeout place. It should be puppy proof as she may have a tempertantrum. After a minute, if she is quiet, let her out. If she isn't wait until she's quiet and then let her out. Be consistent. I find that a time out works VERY well with many problems in my house.

Also, it can help to redirect her to toys when she starts to nip but that probably won't help if she's drawing blood.
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:04 PM
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I have tried a deep growl and a No. I have ignored her like you say but she comes straight back at me. The time out is usually out the back door. Aftera while she will come back in and be as sweet as pie then the minute she wants on my knee it's all on again. I asked my vet about it and he was the one tht told me about the rolling her over and holding on to the back of her neck. I took her for her vacination yesterday and she started to protest and bite him so he showed me what to do and she calmed right down for him and she stopped biting completly but it does not work for me. I have just rememberd that I used to use a squirt bottle years ago on a dog that was digging holes so I will try that now and see if that works. She is such a dear little dog and would hate her to grow up nasty. Thankyou for your reply Saje I will give her more time out. What do you think about the water bottle?
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Old 01-19-2007, 11:42 PM
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Wish I could help....I've never had an aggressive puppy . Do GENTLE play ONLY!!! You have to find some way to stop it at this young age ! I personally wonder how much the breeder socialized her .
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
I do not want her to be dominant
Quote:
She is such a dear little dog and would hate her to grow up nasty
If you keep attacking this infant dog by scruffing her, putting her on her back, spraying things at her, growling at her, you will get a fearful, mal adjusted and/or aggressive dog. Your vet may know medicine, but is sadly misinformed about behavior.

http://www.showdogs.co.za/wag_the_dog/dominance.htm

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/...ha-roll_no.htm

Those links should help you get started on the concept which relates to dogs with an understanding of dogs. After you read those, browse the training and puppy forums because your question comes up all the time. This is normal puppy behavior. It is not real aggression. Your puppy is too young. If you're not giving your pup adequate exercise and romping and sending confusing messages, she's frustrated and has no outlet.

I also recommend you get her enrolled in a puppy class with a positive method trainer who understands behavior....as soon as she's had most of her shots. Harsh or stern treatment of your puppy will ruin her. Be careful what trainer you get...there are a lot of bad ones out there. Get references, watch a class first.

Be patient. This is a baby. I wouldn't expect any puppy to stop puppy behavior at 11 weeks.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:23 AM
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Thanks Doberluv I will go in and have a good look at those sites right now. We have heaps of play during the day mostly fetching no ruff stuff we dont play tug of war or do anything aggressive. My problem is that I read Milans book long before Isabella arrived here and then the vet said his idea's were good ones so naturally I went by that. I have had dogs well ajusted dogs all my life my last dog was an Airedale I trained him beautifully I never had these problems with him or any other dog i have had. There were six puppies in Isabella's litter and the woman that had them was at the hospital for the first 3 weeks I think with her dying father ,so maybe they did not get the attention they needed, They were well fed and in very good condition but do not think they had been handled very much which is a shame. I am not scruffing her now only yesterday after the vet said I should. Cannot believe that I cannot get this right. When I used the water spray she stopped immediately and licked me but You think that is bad as well. Anyway thankyou so much i will go in and have a good read right now.Take care Olivia
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:25 AM
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You're right .....they should hae been handled more at an early age . Keep working on it ....she's be fine !
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:40 AM
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I recommend that you read Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. She can get you through a lot of these kinds of situations. Cesar Milan is not a behaviorist or dog psychologist. Most Phds in behavior view his ideas as archaic and showing a clear misunderstanding of our domestic dogs. He labels behavior in two ways; either dominant or not dominant. Domestic dogs are hardly ever dominant. They're simply untrained or undertrained. They don't know how to act in a human's world until they're taught. He reads body language wrong in many cases. Being excessively dominating toward a dog or being overly forceful, punishing does not build a working relationship with a dog. I want my dogs engaged with me and with what they're learning. It's school for them, not war against the dogs.

It's important to learn something about scientific learning theory...how dogs learn. They learn by reinforcement. If you give your dog what she wants while she's biting and lunging at you, she will repeat it. Everyone repeats behaviors for which they are reinforced or rewarded. What does she want? Is it attention? What do you do when she does this? Attend to her? You need to prevent a payoff for behaviors you don't want. And offer her alternative behaviors for which she can be reinforced so she will choose those behaviors instead.

Cesar Milan is right about a few things; exercise appropriate for the age of the pup will help settle her down. Several times a day, a good, hard romp outside, some running, fetching which you can teach, chasing a rope that you drag around for an outlet for her herding drives will help her be satisfied that way. Fun chew toys. Someone reminded me of a plastic liter bottle (top off) for a dog to kick around the house and pounce on. Pouncing, biting, chasing, grabbing are predatory drives and dogs need outlets for these, some more than others. The breed of dog you have needs a lot of that most likely.

Then start teaching basic obedience and make it very fun and rewarding. Your puppy doesn't know yet so if she doesn't do something, she is not being naughty. These skills; sit, come, down, stay etc will be useful to fill up her brain with things to think about and do INSTEAD of the no no. As she learns them, you make her successes, even baby steps very rewarding so she'll repeat them. When she's about to bite or jump, you can ask for a sit, down and reward for that. Those things will become the default behavior instead of the unwanted behaviors.

Obedience training using positive methods, motivation and reward will help her mature and will help behavior in general. It will also strengthen the bond you two have so she'll WANT to be engaged with you.

Look through the forums too. There are threads on attention training, teaching sit and stay, teaching a reliable recall (come) and a lot of other behavior issues.

Every dog is different. Your Aussie is most likely a much higher drive dog than some of your past dogs and needs more pro-active involvement. If she wasn't handled a lot as a baby, that too could set her back. Be sure to get her out and socialize her a lot every day. That is sooooo important. Get her around all kinds of things but make sure nothing frightens her.

I didn't mean to sound harsh but over whelming a very young puppy with a lot of intimidation, force, coercion, fear, discomfort (Cesar's way) is not the way to raise a puppy. Most of the well known, highly respected behaviorists and trainers see his ways as being very detrimental to our domestic dogs and are setting dog training back decades. We've come so far by studies, research, proof and practice that we know there are other ways which work so much better and produce a happy, willing, well trained and smart dog. We don't need to make them submissive and down trodden in order to have an obedient, well mannered dog. I certainly don't like the body language I see in some of the dogs he works with.

Another book, if you like to read, is Dogs, a Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Evolution and Behavior by Ray and Lorna Coppinger. Excellent, excellent book. I can't recommend that highly enough. You will see how and why it is extremely unlikely that dogs are pack animals and how we are not a pack member or an alpha or any of the other mumbo jumbo that Cesar talks about. Leaders, yes, but benevolent ones who engage our friends and how our dogs participate with us or live along side us. We have no business intimidating and highy dominating this other specie or a need to. It is NOT what is best for them, as Cesar proclaims.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:28 PM
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I appreciate your help Doberluv. All the advice you have given me I will put into practice. Before I decided on a puppy I read so much , that I think I confused myself. I have to start somewhere else now ,and your advice is now a new start for Isabella and myself. I have no other problems with her just the snarling and biting. All the other dogs I have had in my life I had no problems with, I did very well with two poodles many years ago in obedience. I think because I am 73 years old I wanted to make sure I had a well behaved dog in case someone else ends up having her( although I am very active and healthy) one never knows at my age.
I appreciate you helping me and will send you a message in a couple weeks to let you know how things are going. Once again thankyou .Olivia.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:20 PM
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This is a lot of dog. I wouldn't attempt it if I were much older than I am now, which is 52. You're brave, I must say! LOL. These dogs need exercise in a big way and running around the yard, when they get a little older just doesn't cut it. I do hope you can find a class to take her where the trainer has a good understanding of how dogs learn things. It is so common for people to project our human morals and values onto dogs and then get angry or punishing toward them when they don't have a clue. That's why it's so important to read that first book I mentioned. She puts it into perspective and has specific ways to work problems. It's a very well written and enjoyable book too.

I know what you mean about past dogs. I've had easier dogs to train as puppies than my Doberman. He was a handful and needed a ton of exercise which meant I had to beef up my hiking skills. I live in a remote wilderness area thank goodness. It's perfect for a dog like this. He had to get the zoomies out or his behavior was monsterous. My chi's were a piece of cake as pups. My Lab before them was calm and easy as a puppy. My GSDs before that were energetic and a lot of dog, but easier than my Doberman as puppies. Then I've had mixed breeds too along the way. LOL. They're all different, not only by breed, but as individuals.

If you have any specific questions or stumbling blocks, let us know. But browsing through the training and puppy forums, you'll find a lot of common behavior problems and some ideas for working with them. Keep us posted. Glad you're here.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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