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  #31  
Old 01-08-2007, 01:22 PM
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tempura tantrum tempura tantrum is offline
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Wow. Fighting against the rights of an animal. How lovely.
Chinchow- the idea of animal rights vs. animal welfare is that *animal rights* lean more towards the direction of PETA-types. IE: it is unethical to OWN animals because they shouldn't be OWNED at all- they should have the same rights as a human being. While this no doubt, SOUNDS really good, in effect, the animal *rights* path is the one that eventually destroys domestic animal ownership.

I don't personally view my dogs as property- but in order to have any sort of control or decisions regarding their welfare, I NEED them to be viewed as such by the government. Those that support animal *welfare* recognize this. They aren't out to end domestic pet ownership- which I'm sure YOU wouldn't like either. They still DO care that animals are treated humanely.

THAT is what Red is talking about.
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  #32  
Old 01-08-2007, 01:29 PM
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Well said, Tempura. I agree.
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  #33  
Old 01-08-2007, 01:43 PM
casablanca1 casablanca1 is offline
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Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
You, like many others, have been sucked into the Animal Rights Black Hole of twisted viewpoints regarding the selective breeding of dogs and other domestic animals. This is how they divide and conquer. If you think that outlawing selective breeding will further the welfare of domestic animals, you are seriously wrong. It's only a stepping stone to the ultimate AR goal. No domestic animals.
I get your point about groups such as PETA, but I wish you hadn't phrased it like this. There is entirely too much of this going around - when Person A disagree with Person B, A attributes B's ideas/position/theory not to a simple difference of opinion but to B's enslavement to groupthink--the media has brainwashed B about pit bulls, the animal rights people have sucked B into their black hole, etc.
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2007, 02:54 PM
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Miakoda Miakoda is offline
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Well, we don't 'hate' LSU like we do some others....(gators)!! In fact, I usually root for the Tigers if they're not playing UGA.

I mostly joined this thread because Uga was mentioned, and I guess I straddle the fence on this topic.

I absolutely love the looks and the temperaments of the English bulldogs and Pugs. When a thread goes around asking for our favorite 3 or 5 breeds, these 2 always end up in mine. I have owned a Pug.

I guess I agree with the opinion that breeders should be trying to breed towards healthier dogs. I don't know that I would ever go out and buy one of these breeds due to the potential health issues (but our Pug had no breathing problems at all), but I sure would hate to see them go away. I would think most of the health issues could be addressed by the breeders.

Part of the reason that I'm not sure that I would buy one of these breeds, though, is because I'm not sure if I'll go through a breeder again for any breed of dog. We adopted from the shelter and have been very happy and probably will do that the next time we get a puppy or dog. Beyond that, opinions and situations change, so I don't know what I'll be looking for that much farther down the road.

I don't think the EB needs to go away. I think it needs to go back to how it used to be. Breeders nowadays are going for lower to the ground, wider dogs with larger heads with a more "pushed in" face because that's also what judges are placing now. IMO, they need to get them back to a breed that can actually function well on a daily basis & improve the health issues. By breeding for only size & looks, breeders will only kill off the breed in a few short years rather than preserve it.

And BrandyB, here are a few more pics for you:

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  #35  
Old 01-08-2007, 05:23 PM
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Miakoda,
Very nice dogge you have there. I love his head piece, and his ears especially! He looks like a tank! Just the way they're suppose to. Thanks for posting those!
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandyb View Post
Miakoda,
Very nice dogge you have there. I love his head piece, and his ears especially! He looks like a tank! Just the way they're suppose to. Thanks for posting those!
No problem! I love showing off some of the dogs.
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:58 PM
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I'm just responding to the OP here...

As a RL Pug Breeder/Owner/Handler and the owner of a Pet Frenchie, I think you have been misinformed as to the severity of the problems.

Like any dog, when it is extremely hot, you have to be careful to keep them from overheating. But, in my experience with the breed (which is rather extensive), it's more the humidity that is a problem than anything. But even so - mine can go out in the summer and run around for a bit and play without a problem. My Frenchie LOVES the heat - if it's 90 degrees outside, he'll find a sunny spot and go nap in it. He just loves it.

As someone else posted, Pugs can run agility without a problem... most of them anyways. And I plan on running my specials boy in it as soon as he is retired from the Conformation ring.

Sorry if this isn't very clearly written - I'm kind of tired and I don't think I'm thinking clearly. haha...
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Dolly Dolly is offline
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I do find it a little strange that some breed standard traits can be health liabilities and just look good. But, having owned a pug (and a poorly bred one at that), I'd have to say the breathing problems of squished nose dogs aren't that bad. Sure, my pug made snuffling noises and didn't like walks on hot days. But that's what air conditioning is for.

Still, though, I wish that some breeds' traits were a little more practical. For example, I'd love it if Shih-Tzus had less squished faces so their eyes weren't so prone to problems. And why do maltese, in all their cute fluffy glory, have to be so darn WHITE?
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2007, 04:04 AM
IliamnasQuest IliamnasQuest is offline
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Originally Posted by Shannerson View Post
I am wondering what everyone thinks of this. Do you think it is ethical to breed for certain traits in a dog that can potential and usually cause health problems?
I'm just going to pull out this one question and give my opinion.

I think it's absolutely wrong for breeders to breed for any traits that usually cause health problems. I have met some chows who have been bred for such a heavy head and heavy bone that they wheeze as they walk and can barely make it around a show ring (and for a chow, that's not very far) .. and yet, unfortunately, some of these chows end up as champions. I think it's pathetic, personally.

I wouldn't pick out any specific breeds and say "this entire breed is wrong" .. but there ARE breeders in various breeds who go for extremes to the detriment of the dogs. I find this wrong. It has nothing to do with animal right groups. To me, it's 100% about the dogs and what's being done to them. And I'm not just talking about breathing problems. We can probably all think of a color/coat/shape in a number of breeds that creates problems and yet some breeders continue to produce these overdone dogs because they like the look or can make some money from it.

Personally I'd like to see all dogs be able to live a long healthy life without breathing problems, leg problems, etc. .. and to be dogs that can run and play and be active like dogs are supposed to be.

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  #40  
Old 01-15-2007, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbatd View Post
Personally I've seen many breeds ruined by AKC shows. A few judges can change the whole picture . Sad .
People always seem to blame the judges, and only AKC ones at that, as if they were the ones who whelped the dogs, and these trends exist nowhere else. It is NOT just a judge problem, but starts with the breeder.
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