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  #21  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:15 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Originally Posted by showpug View Post
I think one of the only breeds that HAS to have a c-section to deliver is the English Bulldog.

The majority of all the pugs I know free whelp.
I have read that the French Bulldog is another C-section breed. Even heard Martha Stewart discussing it with the breeder of her Frenchies one morning.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
And for any Georgia fans, Uga fans, or just plain EB fans, the book Dam* Good Dogs about the history of UGA's mascot, Uga, is wonderful! & it's easy to see the recent evolution of the bulldog just in this book alone.
We are Georgia graduates and huge Georgia fans. You're absolutely right. If all the Uga's were English Bulldogs, (and I think they were) they have certainly changed over time. The original Uga looks more fit than the present-day one. Of course, the current one is probably reaching retirement age.
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannerson View Post
I am wondering what everyone thinks of this. Do you think it is ethical to breed for certain traits in a dog that can potential and usually cause health problems? An example is the brachycephaly type pug-nosed breeds who have breathing problems like the Pug, the Bulldogs, the Boxer, etc.

I think it is cruel; I understand they are bred for a certain "look" but the poor dogs especially in the summer-time with the hot weather have a hard time breathing. Couldn't they be bred with a slightly less exaggerated look for the better of their health/comfort?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill. Do I not understand this correctly? Maybe they don't suffer as much as I think they do since I don't own this type of breed.
You, like many others, have been sucked into the Animal Rights Black Hole of twisted viewpoints regarding the selective breeding of dogs and other domestic animals.

This is how they divide and conquer.

If you think that outlawing selective breeding will further the welfare of domestic animals, you are seriously wrong.

It's only a stepping stone to the ultimate AR goal. No domestic animals.
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:45 PM
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Not all people who believe in animal rights have that goal in mind.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2007, 09:55 PM
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Shannerson Shannerson is offline
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Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
You, like many others, have been sucked into the Animal Rights Black Hole of twisted viewpoints regarding the selective breeding of dogs and other domestic animals.

This is how they divide and conquer.

If you think that outlawing selective breeding will further the welfare of domestic animals, you are seriously wrong.

It's only a stepping stone to the ultimate AR goal. No domestic animals.
Wow, where did that come from?! Yikes. Why are you jumping on me like that? Has someone been sipping a little Kool Aid?

My post could not have been more "gentle" in my inquiry. I said is it ETHICAL and never said it should be OUTLAWED. I don't even know any animal rights people. I simply think it COULD be unethical to purposely breed a dog with health problems. I am learning different view points. Whose post did you read anyway because yours makes no sense when you are quoting mine. I simply want to learn and hear what others think.

AND you did not even reply to my question just attacked me. So I guess you are on board with people breeding whatever they want even if they produce unhealthy animals, or am I reading into your post.
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Last edited by Shannerson; 01-07-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2007, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mjb View Post
We are Georgia graduates and huge Georgia fans. You're absolutely right. If all the Uga's were English Bulldogs, (and I think they were) they have certainly changed over time. The original Uga looks more fit than the present-day one. Of course, the current one is probably reaching retirement age.
First off....GEAUX LSU!!

And yes, all the Ugas have been EBs & it's amazing to see the evolution of them. But I've found that just by looking at pictures in EB books of history that the breed has changed a lot & for the worse in recent years.

The original Uga had a very similar body structure to our OEB. Here's a side by side comparison of our OEB & our now deceased EB:


Our OEB is actually a very athletic animal (although he does tend to overheat faster than the APBTs on hot days). He goes for 2 mile walk/jogs & then still comes home with leftover energy for 30 minutes of fetch, flirtpole activity or springpole activity. He's borderline downright hyperactive & MUST have something to do at all times. Our EB was the polar opposite. Hopping off the couch & going 20 ft. to the water bowl took almost all his energy & he had to stop & lie down for a short break on his way back to the couch. The short run after a poop in the yard was his exercise for the day & he wanted nothing more than that. Any amount of walking resulted in serious breathing issues. And this was an almost AKC champion showdog but all the judges said his nose wasn't "pushed in enough" to their liking. Geez, had it been any more "in" it would've been inverted.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:53 AM
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Hey Miakoda,
I was going to mention the OEB too. I've got one at home, and though the standards are a little haphazard and there is a little too much room for error, I think that this breed makes sense ... re-creating the bull of old, to be healthier, much less breathing problems, and over a dog that can actually get around, and probably do what it was bred to do years and years ago. In my personal opinion, I think that EB breeders should be breeding towards a goal of health overall. I do believe the goals should be longer muzzle, smaller heads, correct angulation, and of course, testing for genetic diseases, to which their is a huge list for this poor dog (heart, knees, hips, spine, eyes, etc).

Not the greatest pic, and he's young there, so he's filled out a little more. Not my idea of the best OEB (he's too lanky, looks more mastiff than bull and his head isn't quite big enough - hermes line) but you can see the major different in structure and over all well being, which I think EB breeders should be working towards.

Shannerson,
I guess I am in agreement with most people here. I always said that if a pup can only be born by c-section, well, this may sound harsh, but it wasn't meant to be. And I am not talking emergency c-section on breeds that can whelp naturally, I'm talking about the brach breeds who require c-sections as if they were a natural thing. I'm not saying that these breeds should be banned, however, I am saying that breeders need to re-think where their breed is headed and what they can do to "better it" healthwise. Don't get me wrong, Frenchies are one of my favorite breeds, and I do like bulldogs (but not the ones with the huge nose ropes, and poor rear angualtion), but I really do think its time that breeders buckled down, and tried to produce "better" dogs. JMO
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  #28  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:18 AM
mjb mjb is offline
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Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
First off....GEAUX LSU!!
Well, we don't 'hate' LSU like we do some others....(gators)!! In fact, I usually root for the Tigers if they're not playing UGA.

I mostly joined this thread because Uga was mentioned, and I guess I straddle the fence on this topic.

I absolutely love the looks and the temperaments of the English bulldogs and Pugs. When a thread goes around asking for our favorite 3 or 5 breeds, these 2 always end up in mine. I have owned a Pug.

I guess I agree with the opinion that breeders should be trying to breed towards healthier dogs. I don't know that I would ever go out and buy one of these breeds due to the potential health issues (but our Pug had no breathing problems at all), but I sure would hate to see them go away. I would think most of the health issues could be addressed by the breeders.

Part of the reason that I'm not sure that I would buy one of these breeds, though, is because I'm not sure if I'll go through a breeder again for any breed of dog. We adopted from the shelter and have been very happy and probably will do that the next time we get a puppy or dog. Beyond that, opinions and situations change, so I don't know what I'll be looking for that much farther down the road.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:55 AM
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Not all people who believe in animal rights have that goal in mind.
Perhaps individuals do not, but people should be aware that this IS the goal of ALL the organizations such as PETA, ALF, etc.

I am all for Animal Welfare.

I will fight against animal RIGHTS.
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  #30  
Old 01-08-2007, 10:07 AM
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Wow. Fighting against the rights of an animal. How lovely.
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