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Old 11-08-2006, 01:45 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Location: Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by RD View Post
Laurelin, your Pap is gorgeous. Magnificent coat on that boy.

In my breed, coat doesn't matter at all. As long as the dog HAS hair, it'll do. Same goes for coat color, eye color, markings etc. Bite, on the other hand, IS important. A dog needs to have a healthy bite in order to do most kinds of work. Soundness is the most important thing in Borders, because they do have a job to do and must be physically fit to handle it. With breeds like Paps (and I'm not just picking on Paps, I have one and he's a blast) it's just a beauty contest.

Well, I meant with breeds like shelties, coat does matter. they were bred in a very cold environment so a double coat is needed for insulation. In paps, it really is just for beauty, but I basically treat it like anything on the standard. You try to better it. It says a single coat that is silky to the touch, so it'd be wrong to have a double coated, coarse haired papillon. Most of the papillon standard just revolves around the 'buttefly' appearance. Ex: colored markings. Paps must have color on both ears and over both eyes. A symmetrical blaze is preffered. But in this case, the American breeders are a WHOLE lot more lenient than the English breeders. Solid headed dogs and crookedly blazed dogs are shown a lot in the akc and bred. (An in Sweden and many other countries) It's a major rift in the american and english breeders right now. English breeders actually focus on thicker coats than American breeders and they focus more on markings- less color on the body and a bigger, straighter blaze. Imo the markings really don't matter a whole lot. In fact, breeding for bigger blazes makes mismarks (ie: a papillon with white over one eye or white on an ear, even half colored faces similar to a jrt) a whole lot more prevalent. English breeders are having some problems now breeding non dqed dogs in these lines that carry these huge blazes. So it's not really just the akc that has problems like this, it's all registries.

However, in papillons and companion breeds, soundness really does apply still even if the breed isn't working. You don't want to breed dogs that have hip or eye problems no matter what they do.

IMO it's not the AKC that ruins breeds, but it's the breeders. People interpret standards differently. If you actually compare the AKC to FCI and other standards, they're really very similar. It's just the type the breeders choose to go after and what attributes they feel like accentuating.

Hank CA - (approx. 1 1/2 year old Spotty Dog)
Mia CGC - (6 1/2 year old Papillon)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (11 year old Papillon)
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:52 PM
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Cole's Mom Cole's Mom is offline
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Originally Posted by whatszmatter View Post
I think they AKC has just as much to do with it as the breeders. THere are lots of politics in the AKC, lots of judges and breeders scratching each others backs. The AKC provides the standard, but yet there are dogs that are put in winning positions that aren't even close to the standard. They do chose the judges, they also have a part in training the judges, they let lots of things slide in the name of money. They provide the vunue for lots of these things to happen. The AKC is much much much more in the dog world than a piece of paper with words written on it.

There's a reason there is a split in every breed with popularity in the AKC and the rest of the world. JRT's, GSD's, BC's etc. and its not like the AKC's hands are clean in this, not clean at all.
Actually, the AKC does not write the breed standards. The parent club of the breed writes the standards and submits them to the AKC. Breeders breed what they think is close to what the standard asks for or some breed to what they think will win in the ring.

Coat, bite, missing teeth, angulation, movement, temperament all have an impact on how a dog performs the tasks they were bred for. Of course it differs by breed, but I do not think you can say that these things are of no consequence.

Cole's Mom
CH. Joric's Bold Venture Msmar, ROM, CD, WAC, CGC
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