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  #21  
Old 10-03-2006, 11:04 AM
Borntoleadk9.com Borntoleadk9.com is offline
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Originally Posted by dr2little View Post
I agree Alex. It's simply a ridiculous notion that a) dogs relate to humans the way that they do to other dogs and b) old wolf studies (ancient and misinterpreted) often referred to as relevant, have anything at all to do with training domestic canines.
dear doc

based on my experiences dogs relates to people mostly the same way they approach other dogs. whats the first thing a dog does to another dog? sniff. whats the first thing a dog does to a person? sniff. you got it.

being social animals they follow instinct and rituals. all of which i have seen them do to other dogs and people. before you go all professor on me, i do acknowledge that there is not the same behavior always, but whatever difference, is always LEARNED.

so go ahead and be 3 years old and roll arounf on the floor and laugh.


secondly i never said anything about wolf studies. stop talking for me. ok, Doc?
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2006, 01:27 PM
Vylula Vylula is offline
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Oh goodness, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. Now I am confused on what to do....

Vy
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:49 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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You didn't start a ruckus. We're perfectly capable of starting one all by ourselves. ROFLOL!

What are you confused about specifically? The biting during play? This is normal puppy behavior. Puppies are dogs. That's how they play, teethe, explore, feel things, interact. They know how to be one thing......dogs. They don't speak our language and we don't speak theirs...at least not very well. But scientific learning laws will work to teach, along with the maturing process of your pup as maturity develops. Growing into an adult doesn't happen overnight. This and all growing up takes time, experiences, education and just getting older. Its just like with people babies. They don't turn into well mannered, educated adults until they are more mature.

Its not too complicated and you don't have to worry about hurting or causing fear or pain, undue confusion at all in your pup.

Simply, remove the payoff from the dog when engaged in an undesireable behavior. In the case of nipping while playing, what is the payoff? Your continued playing, attention and presence. Remove it all at once when the pup bites and it comes even close to hurting. Get up, leave for a couple of minutes. Be sure puppy has a suitable chew toy that will feel good on the gums. Try again in a few minutes. If puppy is gentle with your skin and mouths ever so gently, stay there with the pup. Let her know that this is a nice way to mouth. This way puppy learns her own strength and later on if anything causes her to bite, she will be apt to lessen the pressure of the bite.

Once she gets it (after several weeks and lots of reinforcement and consistancy for the right way)....to mouth gently and that the slightest pressure with her teeth causes all the fun to end and causes you to leave, she'll choose the better way to mouth.

Then you can start teaching her that the gentle mouthing game is only allowed upon invitation. At that time, you can again end the fun when she instigates the game and you show her that only when you instigate the game is it allowed. You can then add a cue word if you want when its time to stop the game, such as "enough." As soon as she stops mouthing and keeps her mouth to herself, say, "enough." And praise. She will associate that word with the stopping of the mouthing. Don't use the cue word while she's mouthing at first or she'll learn that the cue word means to mouth. Distract her if you need to and only use the cue word when she stops. Later, once you can tell that she's made the connection between the cue word and the stopping, you can try it ahead of time and see if she stops. If she doesn't, make sure you do something to make her stop. Take your hand away, end the playtime for a few seconds. If this happens, it means she hasn't made the connection yet between stopping and "enough." Go back to using the cue word with the stopping, not before for a while.

Some people prefer no biting, mouthing at all. But personally, like with my Doberman, I taught him gentle mouthing upon invitation. He knows the amount of pressure he can exert and knows how to regulate it to a T. He knows what is acceptable and what is not.

Puppies learn some of this from their littermates. But its like they have to learn it all over again with their humans. They don't understand how fragile our skin is. Its a rather complex concept for a dog to go through that kind of reasoning, so harsh punishment, pain, causing fear, scolding is IMO not fair and doesn't teach the dog very well what it is you do want from him. But it can teach the dog that you do scary things and aren't to be trusted. Of course, these things come in varying degrees. I prefer the method I described because it teaches the pup what you DO want and the only awful thing that happens is that the fun stops upon an incorrect response and upon a correct response, praise, treats, continued interaction reinforces that correct response. Reinforcement is what causes behavior to be repeated. (law)

I hope I didn't confuse you even more.
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Borntoleadk9.com Borntoleadk9.com is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vylula View Post
Oh goodness, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. Now I am confused on what to do....

Vy
Hi ya!

dont be confused by the ego's at play here. listen to doberluv. that is very accurate and good sound advice. sorry for us veering off course!

goodluck with your puppy!
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2006, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borntoleadk9.com View Post
dear doc

based on my experiences dogs relates to people mostly the same way they approach other dogs. whats the first thing a dog does to another dog? sniff. whats the first thing a dog does to a person? sniff. you got it.
Hmmm, what about body language? Because a dog sniffs a human doesn't mean he thinks he's a dog. The body language is entirely different.

being social animals they follow instinct and rituals. all of which i have seen them do to other dogs and people. before you go all professor on me, i do acknowledge that there is not the same behavior always, but whatever difference, is always LEARNED.

so go ahead and be 3 years old and roll arounf on the floor and laugh.


secondly i never said anything about wolf studies. stop talking for me. ok, Doc?
Who said that I was referring to you with regards to wolf studies? It was just another point along similar lines. As for acting 3 and rolling on the floor laughing..
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  #26  
Old 10-03-2006, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Borntoleadk9.com View Post
Hi ya!

dont be confused by the ego's at play here. listen to doberluv. that is very accurate and good sound advice. sorry for us veering off course!

goodluck with your puppy!
Agreed! Try to ingnore all the "alpha rolling", it's really quite harmless...though not very helpful on our parts.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-2006, 06:40 PM
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Let's not get bogged down with personal feelings toward eachother. We may not agree on ways to teach dogs or approve of them, but that's no reason to be personally insulting toward eachother. We all have a common ground and something very important that we share....and that is our love of dogs. Its no good getting overly sensative or assuming things that we really don't know about eachother.

Its very hard on the Internet to get a complete picture from just type written words. So much is missing from communication that way. So, to assume someone is a certain way just from a few written words, without seeing or hearing the person, seeing them in different contexts, spending time with them....that can steer you into an inaccurate portrayal. So its best to stick to the issues, argue about ideas, but definitely not attack eachother in a personal way or attack a general population here on the forum.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-2006, 11:17 PM
Herschel Herschel is offline
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Why do people love to pick fights with Dr2? She wants to be positive!
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:22 AM
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Sociallizing is, I find, the best way to deal with harsh play bitting. She will learn quickly from other dogs that her bitting is too hard. My puppy Briar had the same trouble, and he still bites hard sometimes but he is doing better especially after playing with his buddy Charcoal who doesnt put up with his hard bitting.

Since you are also new to being a puppy mommy, you may not be used to puppy teeth. She may not be bitting hard at all, but her sharp little teeth may make it feel that way.
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  #30  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:18 PM
Vylula Vylula is offline
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socializing! Yeah! She is in doggie day camp as we speak and she loves it! She loves other dogs....even the most giant of dogs.....and she only weighs 3 or 4 pounds....LOL
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