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  #11  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:47 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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I'd go with Ian too. The thing about trying different things is that its confusing. Up to now, this behavior has been reinforced or it wouldn't continue. In other words, its been working for her. You need to stick with something consistantly for a few weeks until she realizes that what she did before isn't working anymore. (working to get playtime and attention)

If the bite is the slightest bit too much pressure, abruptly end all playtime for a little bit. Walk away and give no attention. If she is very gentle, continue patting her calmly. Stick with it. When she is becoming gentle quite regularily, start adding a cue word, like, "gennnntle." Then later you can use it as a reminder ahead of time. Don't use the word while she's biting hard or she'll think that's what the word means. LOL. Wait till she's gentle so it can be associated with the behavior.

Scruffing, yelling, frightening IMO doesn't teach. It just subdues the dog and makes them distrustful of you, some dogs mildly, some more so. I think its best to reinforce the behavior you do like and manage the behavior you don't.

My Dobe puppy was unbelieveable. My goodness, could he ever bite! He learned and I didn't have to be harsh with him by scruffing or any terrifically dramatic cures. He learned what kind of mouthing kept the affection and fun going and what kind of biting made all the good stuff go away. Dogs, like any living organism want to keep the good things happening. Some dogs take longer than others. Puppies are just babies and they need time to mature and learn these lessons. No need to get too riled up about it at this point.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2006, 03:32 PM
Vylula Vylula is offline
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Thanks Doberluv! I feel much better. I forget sometimes that she is just a puppy and I have to be patient and teach! I just don't how much longer my hands and arms can take it! :-)

Vy
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Borntoleadk9.com Borntoleadk9.com is offline
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1) dogs do not get mad. they simply react. if you are making it a game, the game will escalate and continue. make sure you are not encouraging the behavior.
2) when it occurs, say NO in a stern and assertive voice. not yelling!
3) redirect your dog to a toy, when the toy is bit, PRAISE the dog and let him know how good he is.
4) if he return to bite you, redirect again AFTER a stern NO, or whatever verbal correction you choose. its best to use 1 word and not OUCH or YELP. this is because we want the dog EARLY on to understand NO or again, whatever verbal correction you like. yelping is not a verbal correction.
5) dogs do what works. if you allow the bahavior to continue, it will. if you must, remove yourself and ignore the dog if the redirection isnt working.
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2006, 07:19 PM
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The trouble with "No" can be that if it has not been paired with a strong aversive, (and there is no place for that in training dogs, especially babies) it doesn't mean anything in particular to a young dog. They don't understand English the way we do. Some dogs who are not very sensative can take this talking to them to be attention...even if its not very fun attention. Just like with kids, any attention is better than none. So when you want to remove the payoff of attention, playtime, affection, your presence, that includes speaking, looking at, touching....every attention. Social isoloation for about 3 minutes and then try again. Giving a suitable chew toy is good to show what works for chewing. Give it time. These things don't happen overnight.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2006, 07:30 PM
Borntoleadk9.com Borntoleadk9.com is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
The trouble with "No" can be that if it has not been paired with a strong aversive, (and there is no place for that in training dogs, especially babies) it doesn't mean anything in particular to a young dog. They don't understand English the way we do. Some dogs who are not very sensative can take this talking to them to be attention...even if its not very fun attention. Just like with kids, any attention is better than none. So when you want to remove the payoff of attention, playtime, affection, your presence, that includes speaking, looking at, touching....every attention. Social isoloation for about 3 minutes and then try again. Giving a suitable chew toy is good to show what works for chewing. Give it time. These things don't happen overnight.
the only issue i have with this approach is
1) the dog needs to learn a verbal correction. regardless of what that word is.
2) in nature, the higher/stronger dog would correct the behavior, not run away and give a time out. time out are for kids, not animals.

i do agree even neg attention is attention, that is why if you issue a stern NO followed by redirection, the dog learns 1) that no means stop doing what youre doing and 2) biting this toy is a good thing.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2006, 07:51 PM
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Time outs are social isolation, the ultimate rotten thing for a pup. LOL. They have worked for me for years for certain situations.

I don't buy the pack approach where it comes to humans and domestic dogs....so it doesn't do any good to use that argument with me. Sorry about that. ROFLOL.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2006, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borntoleadk9.com View Post
the only issue i have with this approach is
1) the dog needs to learn a verbal correction. regardless of what that word is.
2) in nature, the higher/stronger dog would correct the behavior, not run away and give a time out. time out are for kids, not animals.

i do agree even neg attention is attention, that is why if you issue a stern NO followed by redirection, the dog learns 1) that no means stop doing what youre doing and 2) biting this toy is a good thing.

Hmm...are you a dog? Do you crawl around on the floor and wag your butt? Do you randomly sniff other's body parts or pee in your back yard to stake your claim? If not, how can you justify this apporach. You're saying you need to be the top dog...the top dog does all of these things, do they not?

There is a difference between human and canine for a reason.
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2006, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Hmm...are you a dog? Do you crawl around on the floor and wag your butt? Do you randomly sniff other's body parts or pee in your back yard to stake your claim? If not, how can you justify this apporach. You're saying you need to be the top dog...the top dog does all of these things, do they not?

There is a difference between human and canine for a reason.
I agree Alex. It's simply a ridiculous notion that a) dogs relate to humans the way that they do to other dogs and b) old wolf studies (ancient and misinterpreted) often referred to as relevant, have anything at all to do with training domestic canines.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2006, 10:56 PM
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I agree with Dr2little who agrees with Alex.
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2006, 10:56 AM
Borntoleadk9.com Borntoleadk9.com is offline
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well its good that there is a sense of community here!!

so i can see that you three are all of the same mind. thats totally cool. what works for you you should continue to do. and what works for me i will continue to do.

i think some people here need a little wake up call to politness. i think you guys need to be more openminded to all training techniques. obviously, if things didnt work for me and my clients, i wouldnt be a trainer.

everyone has different approaches and see things differently. if you guys are above continual learning that then i feel sorry for you. i guess you have all learned all there is to know. must be lonely.

i for one, listen to everyone and never tell someone they are wrong. after all, who am i? even the best REALLY dont know. only the dogs know. and they will tell you when you are wrong and when you are right. not 3 anonymous members of a forum. not that i dont value your years of wisdom.
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