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Old 09-27-2006, 09:37 AM
Dirk Dirk is offline
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Default Uncle Matty question

My friend taped Uncle Matty on PBS in 1999. I just saw the tape. He uses the choke collar a lot for different problems. He also believes that you don't need to use treats to get the dog to do what you want. I wouldn't do it his way but I am curious what you all think of his methods.
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:06 AM
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I seldom used treats to train Riot with. I wanted to build his prey drive for when he does Search and Rescue sessions - we ONLY use tug toys for that type of training.

Toy training I have found to be MUCh more effective in every day life situations.
Our Shelties are treat trained and they are little hellians until they see treats - THEN they are little angels about anything you ask of them.
Where as Riot likes treats, but he doesn't bend over backwards for them. He'd prefer a good old squeaky toy anyday to it.

I dont see why a choke collar is "that" popular as well. Its the #1 leading cause of trechea problems in dogs. I trained Riot with a flat nylon collar and then I used the choker when he was old enough and then when he kept pulling - I didn't want to injure his neck so I went to a Halti - he used it 4 times I took it off and tried his choker again and he hasn't pulled since.
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2006, 11:33 AM
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http://www.clickersolutions.com/reading.htm

If you click this link you'll see the books that are catagorized as NOT RECOMMENDED..... All of Uncle Matty's books fall under that catagory for his lack of knowledge and heavy handed methods.
Like Summer said, toy training can be fantastic but unfortunately MOST breeds are not motivated enough by a toy and food reward (which is of course faded when behaviors have been proofed) works best for the majority of dogs.

It really depends on the dog when deciding food or toy for positive reinforcement as well as the age of the dog you're training. Tug toys are almost never used during the early stages of trainin (8 weeks - 12 weeks), but some of the working and herding breeds are motivated enough by toys to transfer from food reward to toys after about 12 weeks.
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:42 AM
silverpawz silverpawz is offline
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I don't agree with his lack of flexability to train dogs differently. Every dog problem has one solution to him and that's a correction (much like Ceaser). Honestly, he reminds me a lot of purely positive trainers who believe that ANY correction is abuse, he just believes that ANY reward or food is wrong. Same inflexibility, different method.

I don't believe that such extremes on EITHER side of the fence is beneficial to dog training. I prefer a more middle of the road approach, but that's just me.
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:50 PM
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I agree with Silverpawz. Inflexibility slows the training process. I've had a lot of dog owners come to me because their last trainer wouldn't allow training collars, or another wouldn't allow food reward. Flexibility is what keeps us in business! We never stop learning all that animals have to teach us and not all methods and equipment work for all dogs. I make it a rule not to critisize other trainers methods, especially in print. (I've put my foot in my mouth a few times in my early days of training. Lol) As for Mathew Margolis...I've done a television program he's also done and audiences love him, he's funny, very charming and markets himself well. While I won't comment on method, overall he has helped clients gain control of their dogs and for a lot of owners, that's all their looking for. Have a great day everyone!
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Old 09-27-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otch1 View Post
I agree with Silverpawz. Inflexibility slows the training process. I've had a lot of dog owners come to me because their last trainer wouldn't allow training collars, or another wouldn't allow food reward. Flexibility is what keeps us in business! We never stop learning all that animals have to teach us and not all methods and equipment work for all dogs. I make it a rule not to critisize other trainers methods, especially in print. (I've put my foot in my mouth a few times in my early days of training. Lol) As for Mathew Margolis...I've done a television program he's also done and audiences love him, he's funny, very charming and markets himself well. While I won't comment on method, overall he has helped clients gain control of their dogs and for a lot of owners, that's all their looking for. Have a great day everyone!
I'm one of the trainers who does not allow pinch or choke collars in class...food rewards, absolutely.
Through the years, I've found that the use of aversives cause more problems than they solve, so I show my clients a better, safer way for both dog and owner. I do not make anyone feel bad when I see one of these tools used but rather show them why I work without them and how it's done. I support my clients throughout their training without these tools and have great success. I have never had an owner go back to aversives after learning how to train without them.
As far as inflexibility is concerned, I used to use various aversives years ago, the same tools that many trainers still use today and I no longer use them because I've learned how to train without them. My decision not to use them came from experience on both sides and far more success on the side void of aversives. I honestly can not imagine why I would ever reintroduce them to any training program, private or group, even with my most severe cases.

Honesty is what keeps me in business, that and a total committment to the dogs and owners I work with for however long it takes. I have no problem answering honestly about how I feel about someones methods on here, especially when the person the OP asked about reaches so many novice owners. I too find him funny and personable but do not agree with his use of punishment, and after all...this is a forum and opinions (ALL) are important....weather I agree or not..

There are many trainers in this city, some I recommend and some I don't, but I do not discuss their methods or give my opinions on any I do not recommend. That's where my foot remains planted firmly on the ground...I too hate the taste of FOOT.
It's up to the client to find his/her best fit. Some will feel more comfortable with me and some will want to go with a trainer who's methods are the polar opposite.
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Old 09-27-2006, 03:56 PM
toniaxp toniaxp is offline
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Choke collars are ok but you have to keep an eye on your dog more to make sure they dont accidently strangle themself. Treats should only be used for bid accomplishments such as housebreaking.
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by toniaxp View Post
Treats should only be used for bid accomplishments such as housebreaking.
what makes you think that? how do you determine what should be rewarded and what shouldn't?

in my own personal little world, if the dog likes food rewards, food rewards are appropriate for any behavior you'd like the dog to repeat.
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:35 PM
silverpawz silverpawz is offline
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Quote:
As far as inflexibility is concerned, I used to use various aversives years ago, the same tools that many trainers still use today and I no longer use them because I've learned how to train without them. My decision not to use them came from experience on both sides and far more success on the side void of aversives. I honestly can not imagine why I would ever reintroduce them to any training program, private or group, even with my most severe cases.
And that's certainly your choice. However I hope you realize that that point of view is indeed being inflexible.

Purely positive is not going to work for every single dog/owner team, if that were the case there would be no reason to even have this discussion as trainers worlwide would all be firmly on the PP side.

Quote:
Through the years, I've found that the use of aversives cause more problems than they solve
Aversives only cause problems if the one administering them is doing it wrong.

We all do what works for us. If you feel your way works, by all means have at it. The rest of us will do the same.

Last edited by silverpawz; 09-27-2006 at 05:13 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpawz View Post
I don't agree with his lack of flexability to train dogs differently. Every dog problem has one solution to him and that's a correction (much like Ceaser). Honestly, he reminds me a lot of purely positive trainers who believe that ANY correction is abuse, he just believes that ANY reward or food is wrong. Same inflexibility, different method.

I don't believe that such extremes on EITHER side of the fence is beneficial to dog training. I prefer a more middle of the road approach, but that's just me.
I"m right there with ya, different dogs, different roads to travel.
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