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  #21  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:28 AM
Aurora171989 Aurora171989 is offline
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I know that with the pack mentality, the alpha leads the pack, but i also know that if the alpha needs help fighting something off, everyone gives him a hand. So I think simply having a fierce-looking dog or a big dog would be an effective deterrent. It's important that the dog be well trained and understand the word no. If you take this dog with you everywhere, he'll protect you if someone attacks.
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by silverpawz View Post
I'd really suggest that you get into a class so you can practice around distractions more. Confronting the problem and working through it is the only way to resolve it. Dragging him away is a solution for the moment, not a long term plan.

You need to find a trainer that can teach you how to handle him in these situations and how to teach him that sit means sit, or down means down no matter what. It is possible.

You can't control other people's dogs, so best not to focus on that. You can only control how your own dog reacts.
i would love to work with a trainer...there are none in my town
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2008, 06:53 PM
boxerdog44 boxerdog44 is offline
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Default protection freaks

Protection training is not done by schutzhund clubs for that purpose it is for sport only . If you feel that you need a dog for protection . Most dog owners feel that just a dog by their side is enough deterrant from harm . It is stess ful for a dog to have to feel it must protect . Why would you want to put a dog in that position or frame of mind.Not a good human companion for a dog
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2008, 06:58 PM
boxerdog44 boxerdog44 is offline
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Default protection freaks ps

Any good trainer would stay away from any owner who requests such a request having an obediant dog is usually peoples wish .If you ask me the dog needs a protection person
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2008, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by boxerdog44 View Post
Protection training is not done by schutzhund clubs for that purpose it is for sport only . If you feel that you need a dog for protection . Most dog owners feel that just a dog by their side is enough deterrant from harm . It is stess ful for a dog to have to feel it must protect . Why would you want to put a dog in that position or frame of mind.Not a good human companion for a dog
There's nothing at all wrong with wanting a dog that would defend you. Most protection dogs never really prove their worth, but better to have the extra safety and not need it, than need it and not have it. A lot of dogs have a great desire to guard their home and family.

I was considering making another thread but since this one got bumped, I'll ask here.

Zaphod is very protective, both of me and my home. He seems to have a sound temperament, though he's been undersocialized.

Once he's older, I want to train him to call off an attack (attack sounds harsh but "reaction" isn't quite strong enough) but I don't necessarily want to train him to attack. I already know he'll react to what he percieves as a threat.

I can't safely mimic a threatening situation at home, and I want to proof his recall or down under a situation involving a "threat". That's the one situation in which Dakota has no recall, and it disturbs me enough with Dakota - Zaphod will likely be 3 times Dakota's size at adulthood. I'd like to be able to just work on an emergency recall with him and hope it would work if he was ever reacting to a percieved threat, but I don't fully trust him to respond under a new and intense distraction like a seemingly hostile person.

Would a protection trainer be of any use to us? Any advice would be appreciated. I'd like to let him be the guardian he wants to be, but I want him to be well trained and safe, too.
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:56 PM
showdawgz showdawgz is offline
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IMO, the whole point of PP training is for control, not necessarily teching a dog to attack (yeah they learn to target and grip but control is most important). PP training does not make a dog more agressive or on egde. its for you and your do to train as a team and gain control and respect (on both ends). If your dog has it in him to protect, then I would rather train him in personal protection rather than having a "loose cannon" if the time comes where he might need to protect you.
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2008, 11:47 PM
boxerdog44 boxerdog44 is offline
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Default protection

I do not think the general public need to train protection as if the dog , I still say agressive owners make want and aquire aggessive breeds . Obediance and control of all situations. Not all dogs have the drive or nerve to be protection dogs.
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2008, 01:48 AM
Sch3Dana Sch3Dana is offline
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But when it boils down to it, if you have a strong bond with your dog and your in trouble, any breed, any personality will protect their mommy
This is a common idea, and I think it makes everyone feel safer at night with their dogs. But the reality is, most dogs will not bite a person, even if their owner is being attacked. My friend Jason was attacked by an intruder in his own home while sleeping. I asked where his Belgian Malinois was and he said he didn't know, he found her when the ambulance came for him. Yes, Belgian Malinois, you know, the police dogs. And the dog came from good working lines. But she was a house pet with no training for protection. This sort of thing happens all the time, but you mostly hear about the dogs who do rise the the occasion and bite.

I have also been attacked and had a dog stand there and watch. On the other hand, I was threatened by a drugged out freak one night and my wimpy 6 month old female malinois went out to the end of the leash and barked at the guy, scaring him off. I would never trust this wimpy dog to protect me if the going got tough, but in this instance her bark was enough and she looked like a hero to me. My male is very confident and trained for protection, but no one has ever attacked me with him on the end of my leash. Maybe he would stand there and look. It's hard to know until it happens. If it was easy, the police would just pick dogs from the shelter for $75 a head and wait on the instincts to kick in. The reality is, they spend thousands of dollars per dog and invest thousands more in training time and the dogs still do not always bite when they should.

Quote:
I can't safely mimic a threatening situation at home, and I want to proof his recall or down under a situation involving a "threat". That's the one situation in which Dakota has no recall, and it disturbs me enough with Dakota - Zaphod will likely be 3 times Dakota's size at adulthood. I'd like to be able to just work on an emergency recall with him and hope it would work if he was ever reacting to a percieved threat, but I don't fully trust him to respond under a new and intense distraction like a seemingly hostile person.

Would a protection trainer be of any use to us? Any advice would be appreciated. I'd like to let him be the guardian he wants to be, but I want him to be well trained and safe, too.
Schutzhund training is not all about making dogs mean. It depends on who is training it and how, but generally Schutzhund training is about taking a dog with natural aggression and teaching them when and how to use it within the context of a game. Kind of like teaching a kid to box so that if he is attacked on the street he has some chance to know what to do.

The right Schutzhund training will often make a dog much less dangerous than he was before training, bc there is so much emphasis on control and responding to appropriate signals that mean "now is the time to bite". The dogs learn to control themselves and wait for an overt attack or signal from the owner to bite. Then they release on command and return to the owner on command.

This kind of training might be great for Zaphod and the original dog in this thread. You would want to look for a trainer who teaches protection primarily as a fun game for the dog. The sleeve is a toy that he uses as a way to play with the "helper". There are rules to the game and he must obey these rules. Teaching the rules in this exciting, but fun, context will give you lots of chances to work on control around strong distractions, which should help you to achieve control in other more real situations.

Training that stresses the dog to make him aggressive towards the person is probably not something most of us want or need. So, if the protection training seems "for real" and not primarily a game for the dog, then this might not be the sort of thing you should pursue. Some trainers, more often the old-style types, really try to make the dogs angry, threatening them, even whipping them to encourage aggression. If this is what is going on at your local club, you'd be better off not participating.

Even if you decide not to do the protection, you may be able to work on any dog aggression problems at the Schutzhund club. In the obedience phase, Schutzhund dogs work on a field together, so even the dogs that are not friendly must be under control. The people at the club probably also have some experience teaching a dog to down stay while they chase off stray dogs. That's what I do and I have always been able to chase off the strays while my dog stays down behind me. Of course, first you need that reliable down- it's no good if he joins in on the chase
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Last edited by Sch3Dana; 02-04-2008 at 01:59 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:11 AM
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if ever you want to train your dog always keep in mind to get a qualified and reputable person you can find. you can also ask some friends if they know someone who can train your dog.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:17 AM
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I saw this thread and wondered if it was the one I started then thought "no way, thats way too old" lol

Just for the record, I will never protection train Buster, he is way too unstable for anything like that, just working on his focussing skills now and getting rid of his reac tivness to other dogs, hopefully one day we'll do agility but thats about the extent of my aims with this little man.
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