Protection training.

[casablanca1]

Originally Posted by mrose_s

he is dog agressive. i have worked on this constantly for about 2 years. its slowly getting better. then he'll do soemthign that makes me wonder if he'll ever stop. he was socialised well, he just has this problem. not sure if it was something that happned before er founf him or what. he is ok with dogs we bring into our house. except as soon as he steps outside the yard. he is a different dog completley. his basic obediance is brilliant usually. he comes when called, sits, stays, drops, sits up plus a few non-necesary tricks. i can control him. but he still acts aggressivly. he lunges, barks and snaps when on lead because he knows he wont end up being let into a fight. when off lead he runs at another dog, knocks it down then comes back and sits in front of you because he KNOWS he wasn't ment to dothat.the reson i want to work on protection trainging is to give him soemthing to focus on when walking him. He needs a job that he see's purpose in doing.

I sympathize. My dog also knows and is good with basic obedience, but loses it when there's another dog around. She doesn't attack them, but she wants to go over and jump all over them, which is of course aggressive behavior that will start WWIII, so I can't let her offleash. We've started doing agility training, which is a solid hour of her being a pain but which she seems to enjoy. Part of the training involves getting your dog to focus on you, since to run a complete course the dog needs to listen to and watch their owner's directions for which jump to go over, which tunnel to go through, etc. I don't know what kind of dog you have but there are lots of dog sports - herding, weight pulling, terrier 'go to ground' exercises', etc. Schutzhund or protection training is probably not a good idea unless A) your dog is very steady and B) you're ready to assume 24/7 responsibility for handling a dog who's been trained to attack humans.

[GSDlover_4ever]

Originally Posted by SummerRiot

I would LOVE to get Riot into Schutz. I think he'd do well in it.

There just isn't a facility around here that is close enough to start it

I'd have to travel 2hrs east every week to get to it which isn't cost effective enough to me with the gas prices.

I drive two hours each way to get to Schutzhund training every monday, ands its worth every minute and penny I spend on gas. During the winter I dont go as much because its a pain in the snow. You should do it with Riot, its a very cool sport and I have a feeling you both would enjoy it. You guys seem to love to work as a team, and thats what its all about.

[DanL]

We're in the same boat here with Sch training. The one club that is an hour away is "full" (I never understood that, they have maybe 8 dogs). The next closest is real far. The travel factor is a huge problem, because many clubs want to see you make a commitment. I don't know if I could even make it to the session on time by the time I get home from work, get the dog packed up, and drive 2 hrs. I'd have to leave work early, drive south 35 miles to my house, pack up, and drive north, past where I work, and fight Philly area rush hour traffic to make it to the session. For all that aggravation, I'm going to stick to the agility and OB work I'm doing with the police K9 trainer we have. For that matter, if I wanted to work some protection training, I bet he'd help me out.

[Roxy's CD]

I've recently discovered that there are two SchH clubs in my area, but only one allows mixes. THe other is purely for GSD's.

From what I understand SchH training can only be done with a mentally stable dog. I guess the trainers have to evaluate your dog before any training can begin...

Roxy nor Hades is dog aggressive (despite the fact that Hades is a pitbull, I suppose months ago he could've been labelled fearful agressive although he never attacked another dog) but they did have "focus" issues around other dogs.

Going to group lessons curbed that behaviour very quickly.

I find what it teaches the dog is: Yes, there are other dogs around, but that doesn't mean that I don't have to focus on mommy. I'm safe here. The other dogs aren't a threat, now it's time to work.

Desensitizing them I think is the first step. If your dog is never around other dogs, EVER, than how are you going to be able to teach and reward good behaviours when he never gets the chance to show them?

Edit: Sorry the other posts sidetracked me

Teaching protection... Hmmm... Of course SchH is protection work, but I truly believe that if you have a strong bond with your dog they'll protect you no matter what. Roxy is very protective and territorial, that's just her personality, as Hades is very calm and submissive. There is no way, that I could make Hades bark at someone walking by the house, and there's no way for me to stop Roxy from barking!!! I think most of the "show protection" aka barking at people around the house, being wary of strangers etc. has a lot to do with breed and personality.

But when it boils down to it, if you have a strong bond with your dog and your in trouble, any breed, any personality will protect their mommy

[silverpawz]

his basic obediance is brilliant usually. he comes when called, sits, stays, drops, sits up plus a few non-necesary tricks. i can control him. but he still acts aggressivly. he lunges, barks and snaps when on lead because he knows he wont end up being let into a fight.

If he's lunging, barking and snapping, you do not have control. It's great if a dog can mantain a sit/stay in the living room or your yard, but training applies to the real world as well. If you're having these issues now, then protection training is most likly not right for you. It's also not somthing that can be done alone, you'd need the assitance of a qualified trainer to help you along.

I think your best bet would be to focus on his basic training so you can use it when it really counts.

[GSDlover_4ever]

Originally Posted by Roxy's CD

Teaching protection... Hmmm... Of course SchH is protection work, but I truly believe that if you have a strong bond with your dog they'll protect you no matter what. Roxy is very protective and territorial, that's just her personality, as Hades is very calm and submissive. There is no way, that I could make Hades bark at someone walking by the house, and there's no way for me to stop Roxy from barking!!! I think most of the "show protection" aka barking at people around the house, being wary of strangers etc. has a lot to do with breed and personality.

But when it boils down to it, if you have a strong bond with your dog and your in trouble, any breed, any personality will protect their mommy

I totally agree. I dont depend on Sch training as my protection. My dogs protect me when they feel I/ or the pack is being threatened. Sch is very disciplined and the dog is NOT allowed to grab ANYTHING but the sleeve and I feel alot of dogs become sleeve happy. In order for the a dog to truly protect in a threatening situation they have to know the difference between real world rules (no sleeve is necessary to protect/bite and grab whatever you can) and Sch rules (ONLY bite when there is a sleeve involved). My dogs naturally picked up real vs. "play".

[mrose_s]

Originally Posted by elegy

then teach him to give you his attention and make his job attending to you. and stop putting him in situations where you know he's going to aggress, because every time you do that, it becomes more engrained and harder to stop.

why are you letting him offleash with other dogs if you know he's dog-aggro? i think you're giving him credit for "knowing" things that he doesn't know at all.

i do not put him in these situations. its hard to keep him out of them. i live in a street where to walk the dog i have to get him past about 3 dogs taht don't have yards. then i have to cut through this paddock to avoid more dogs till i can get to somewhere that he can run around.
he has been off leash in places where my mtoehr takes him. i hate when she drags me along to walk all 4 dogs at once. because they refuse to listen. and people just walk up randomley with their dogs. its nto their fault but we always make sure we go and check who's there and such before we let our dogs out.
i can't keep him on leash all the time. i just think it is too unfair. so i take him places i know are dog free and let him off there.

[mrose_s]

Originally Posted by DanL

If you want him to have a job, try agility or something like that. It will wear him out and he'll get a lot of satisfaction out of doing it. I know when we hit the course with Gunnar, he's a happy boy.

i wouold love to do agility. i've taught him to jump over and through obstacles, walk up ramps, through tunnels etc. but in this town there is nowhere i can actually parctice with him. there is no real agility facilities. no real equipment for it in this town.

[mrose_s]

Originally Posted by silverpawz

If he's lunging, barking and snapping, you do not have control. It's great if a dog can mantain a sit/stay in the living room or your yard, but training applies to the real world as well. If you're having these issues now, then protection training is most likly not right for you. It's also not somthing that can be done alone, you'd need the assitance of a qualified trainer to help you along.

I think your best bet would be to focus on his basic training so you can use it when it really counts.

hmm. i think its also that he feel suncomfortable outside his yard. i do basic obediance with him in parks and such. but its tough work. i say "sit" he sits and glances everywhere around. i say "drop" he drops for about 2 seconds then sits. 9this is an improvment i used to not be able to get him to drop at all) he is slowly getting it. i think he is a but neurotic. well, i suppose i don't even want a great rpotection dog. i know he'll look after him. want i really want him to do is to focus his attention on me. thats what i was getting at. and by in control, i ment. i can hold him back. it isn't easy but i can drag him away. its pretty bad when this dog is running around in circles, snarling, snapping and biing at buster with no one ele to help me. just me, dragging buster out of the way of a dog with no owner

[silverpawz]

I'd really suggest that you get into a class so you can practice around distractions more. Confronting the problem and working through it is the only way to resolve it. Dragging him away is a solution for the moment, not a long term plan.

You need to find a trainer that can teach you how to handle him in these situations and how to teach him that sit means sit, or down means down no matter what. It is possible.

You can't control other people's dogs, so best not to focus on that. You can only control how your own dog reacts.