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  #111  
Old 09-12-2006, 07:45 PM
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iheartsammy iheartsammy is offline
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humm..I didn't read this whole thread, but that first link that was posted kinda bugs me. I mean I have no problem with any dog no matter what it looks like...but people who breed these dogs for no other reason other then "oh silver is a pretty color" isn't the right reason to breed a dog. But I know it has nothing to do with standard, because the dogs in that link where far off standerd it was really annoying... or at least from what I've seen a purebred lab look like... at dogs shows they are always shorter than I think they are! correct me if I'm wrong
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  #112  
Old 09-12-2006, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartsammy View Post
humm..I didn't read this whole thread, but that first link that was posted kinda bugs me. I mean I have no problem with any dog no matter what it looks like...but people who breed these dogs for no other reason other then "oh silver is a pretty color" isn't the right reason to breed a dog. But I know it has nothing to do with standard, because the dogs in that link where far off standerd it was really annoying... or at least from what I've seen a purebred lab look like... at dogs shows they are always shorter than I think they are! correct me if I'm wrong
There are 2 styles of labs. Show/bench and Field bred.
Actually 3 if you include BYBs and the garbage they produce that has a mix of no name dogs to very few distant titled dogs.
Conformation

Field
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  #113  
Old 09-12-2006, 08:07 PM
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oh, ok! thanks for clearing that up! I though I was going to go crazy thinking about it..
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  #114  
Old 09-12-2006, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by peetee07 View Post
This is so beyond pointless at this juncture. Go to the website and tell me i can advertise her as chocolate. That would be irresponsible and misleading which i will not do.
How would you be misleading people by advertising them as chocolate if that is the color they fall into according to the standards? It seems misleading to me to call them silver which is not the correct term. When someone goes to register them they will have to register the dog as chocolate. I also see no reason to price them higher because they are this color. Even if they are not being bred for conformation and just for the field or some type of job (which are also valid reasons), being silver does not make them better at it, so therefore what would make them worth more? From what I can tell you are only breeding for color, which is not a valid reason in my opinion.
What also concerns me is that you ship dogs and I see no mention on there of interviewing prospective owners or screening in any way for proper homes. What I do see is a buy now button that takes you directly to paypal. Most breeders that I have seen when researching the breed I want (boxers) have copies of their contract right on their website. It lays out what is expected of both the buyer and the breeder. Many also have a very long questionaire that you must fill out when sending an email to inquire about getting a puppy. Do you require people to return the dogs to you if they cannot keep them, do you have a spay/neuter agreement? Please do not take this as bashing, this is just not what I usually find when researching breeders.
  #115  
Old 09-12-2006, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MayasMom View Post
How would you be misleading people by advertising them as chocolate if that is the color they fall into according to the standards? It seems misleading to me to call them silver which is not the correct term. When someone goes to register them they will have to register the dog as chocolate. I also see no reason to price them higher because they are this color. Even if they are not being bred for conformation and just for the field or some type of job (which are also valid reasons), being silver does not make them better at it, so therefore what would make them worth more? From what I can tell you are only breeding for color, which is not a valid reason in my opinion.
What also concerns me is that you ship dogs and I see no mention on there of interviewing prospective owners or screening in any way for proper homes. What I do see is a buy now button that takes you directly to paypal. Most breeders that I have seen when researching the breed I want (boxers) have copies of their contract right on their website. It lays out what is expected of both the buyer and the breeder. Many also have a very long questionaire that you must fill out when sending an email to inquire about getting a puppy. Do you require people to return the dogs to you if they cannot keep them, do you have a spay/neuter agreement? Please do not take this as bashing, this is just not what I usually find when researching breeders.
But, the problem is they DO NOT fall into the standards.....they are disqualified for AKC events. Breeders should not purposely breed for a color especially a disqualifing color.
It is misleading no matter how the average pet owner looks at it.

Oh....... my gosh. Do they actually accept a paypal payment for a pup with no prior knowledge of the future owners? That is the BIGGEST red flag yet.
I didn't look at every page on the site........ but I am glad you pointed that out. Just confirms my "In it for the Money" concept.
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  #116  
Old 09-13-2006, 01:51 AM
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Perhaps you should look at every page and not be a follower. There is NO PAYPAL anywhere on the site but if ya bothered to look on your own instead of taking joe shmos word for it ya might have noticed that on your own. God you people are unbelievable. Feels like a kiddie fight in grade 4...grow up.
  #117  
Old 09-13-2006, 01:53 AM
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Our little friend has been sending e-mails about how moronic and stupid I (and apparently the rest of us) are for saying silvers are not supposed to be bred. His "stud" Reese is only 9 months old!!! What does that say? The parent's are not titled and I've no idea about the other generations. I'm going to check and see if the parents were OFA/CERF tested. Sire - elbows: normal, hips: good. Dam - hips: good. No CERF done on either one.

Bear in mind this is from the parents of the 9 month old stud they have. Parents aren't titled, "stud" isn't titled (of course), disqualifying color, no CERF done on parents, "stud" to young for testing and may not even be worthy of breeding.
  #118  
Old 09-13-2006, 04:07 AM
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People do not breed "pet quality" dogs. OFTEN "pet quality" means - mismarked.
I'd like to touch on this really quickly.

As far as Shibas go- a LOT more goes into deciding what "pet quality" is beyond just mismarks.

What is "ridiculous" is the assumption that good breeders would look at a SINGLE aesthetic factor as the reason for petting a dog out.

At least in my breed, a LOT more goes into it beyond that.

We're looking at FIRST AND FOREMOST excellent health (OFA, CERF, etc.) and proper temperament. No matter HOW beautiful a dog is, it isn't worth the time of day if it fails the first two requirements. From there proper angulation, good feet, appropriate size, correct tail set and length, lovely headpiece, good coat TEXTURE (more important than color), and yes, coat color itself.

If a dog posesses the most important characteristics I'm willing to overlook some "minor" flaws (after all- all dogs have them!)

For example: There isn't a correctly marked red sesame in this NATION. (We're still trying to convince the Japanese breeders to let us have a great one...but no luck yet...they're basically priceless). Most of the "sesame" dogs you see are in actuality, mismarked reds- but their other qualities are SO outstanding, that they're worthy of breeding. Correct color is important- but not at the EXPENSE of everything else. And we certainly wouldn't cut an outstanding dog from a breeding program because of a smattering of black hairs on his shoulders.

There IS a color we disqualify from the ring completely. White Shibas are no longer accepted. This is partially due to historical reasons (which I won't get into here unless people really want to know), but also because we found that these dogs had considerably more skin/allergy issues (as well as weaker immune systems), than Shibas in the "traditional" colors.

We don't just breed for "pretty."

What everyone here is getting at is that to breed EXCLUSIVELY for ANY ONE trait is to court certain disaster. And THAT is what worries most people about the majority of silver Lab breeders. A lot of them are looking at color as THE ONE factor that decides a dog's suitability for breeding, and this IMO, is a FAR greater crime than simply disqualifying a single color.

One particularly poignant example I'm thinking of involves a local breeder of Malamutes in my area. This breeder made it a point to tout her dogs enormous size. (Over two times the standard- and often these dogs were achieving such weights at 6 months of age). It became apparent that this was her SOLE selling point. Does it surprise anyone to know that the local Malamute rescue has more of HER dogs than anyone else? That to date- she has sold dogs that have KILLED family members?

And this in a breed that is RENOWNED for it's friendly, people-loving temperament.

When you breed for ONE trait to the EXCLUSION of all else you ARE screwing yourself. We do NOT breed in a vacuum. Traits that have seemingly NO connection to one another phenotypically (eg: size and temperament), may in fact be inextricably linked by genes.

(Remember "rage syndrome" in the reddish Cockers a few years back???)

Consider the total package, or do the dog world a favor, and refrain from breeding.
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  #119  
Old 09-13-2006, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by peetee07 View Post
Are you kidding me?? I purchased our yellow for $900 so the price is not that outrageous..hell i've seen labs gouing for $2000. Ya know what though you are right about one thing they are getting something special. If ya think they are not in demand try getting one from silverlabs.com.....i tried there is a 1 year waiting list.
I went to silverlabs.com. I'm sorry what is your website then. This is the only one I saw you mention, so that is where I went. Maybe you should not tell people to look at another website which such irresponsible breeding practices if you are trying to prove your point.
  #120  
Old 09-13-2006, 08:22 AM
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[QUOTE=Julie;446518]But, the problem is they DO NOT fall into the standards.....they are disqualified for AKC events. Breeders should not purposely breed for a color especially a disqualifing color.
It is misleading no matter how the average pet owner looks at it.
QUOTE]

Sorry I only meant that if they registered the dog it would have to be registered as chocolate even though they can't show it. I do realize it is a disqualification. But you're right, either way it is misleading.
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