Good places to look at for training certification

Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#21
So are you saying that anyone who hasn't taken a course from ABC or another training school is automatically an uneducted trainer? That's a pretty big blanket statement. You're basicly implying that it's impossible to find a great trainer to apprentice under, and I assure you it's far from impossible.

Again, I'm not attacking YOU and I'd appreciate the same respect in return. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I think that if you go back and read your own posts, you'll see the many comments that you made that set the scene for my reply's. To offer as an opinion that you would have been wasting your money achieving a certification that you know full well I have, especially since you have no first hand knowledge of said program is less than passive silverpawz. You say you are trying to offer your point of view but you have nothing but lousy things to say about a program that like you say YOU'VE NEVER TAKEN......:confused:
I would have been happy to discuss this program with you or anyone who either wanted information or knew first hand what it was about but all you wanted to do was argue against the value of something you know nothing about. I do think that it is unwise to seek out a trainer as a potential mentor when you're someone who is clearly is in the beginning stages of a career path. There are trainers here in my city who from the standpoint of a perspective apprentice would appear to be very successful. Many such trainers routinely use chin slaps, knees to the chest, lip pinches and alpha rolls ...among other totally unnecessary abusive "methods". There needs to be some standard of conduct so that these people are forced out or encouraged to evolve. Anyone can throw up a sign and set up shop without more than "self proclaimed" expertise. Gosh, look at Cesar Milan. There are few industries that allow such a cavalier approach. I would think that you, as a trainer, would be happy to see regulations at least in their infancy for the safety of dogs and owners and the credibility, conduct and ethics of trainers. I still don't have a clue why you wanted to argue about a course that you've never taken or why you would give advise to someone without being properly versed on your subject.:confused: :confused:
Oh, and just to be clear, I may take another course/certification if the opportunity and challenge presents itself...as I whole heartedly believe that one never knows it all. Another problem with trainers who believe that they don't need to become certified (something that will someday be mandatory) is that they DO miss out on current information in this ever changing industry.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#22
Another problem with trainers who believe that they don't need to become certified (something that will someday be mandatory) is that they DO miss out on current information in this ever changing industry.
And this makes it seem like you are saying that getting certified is the only way to get this knowledge. Which I don't agree with.

I would think that you, as a trainer, would be happy to see regulations at least in their infancy for the safety of dogs and owners and the credibility, conduct and ethics of trainers. I still don't have a clue why you wanted to argue about a course that you've never taken or why you would give advise to someone without being properly versed on your subject.
Of course I want there to be standards for dog training. I just don't think that someone needs to attend ABC to learn them.

So I can't offer my viewpoint unless I've taken the course? I have to spend $3000 to give my opinion?

I don't understand why you are so against the idea that someone can learn and be a successful, well balanced trainer by apprenticing instead of attending a training school. I know of some very famous and very well respected trainers that never attended such a school. I also know of many others personally that never attended one either.

CPDT and ABC are only two group's opinions on how to train a dog. Not the only way.

Someone can become a great trainer without ABC or schools like it. THAT is my point. The proof of a good trainer is in their success, not in their 'credientials'.

And you haven't answered my question. What exactly does ABC offer that one absolutly cannot get elsewhere?
 
Last edited:

Mordy

Quigleyfied
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
3,868
Likes
0
Points
0
#23
How about looking at the other side of the trainer/apprentice relationship?

If you had two applicants who are looking to work with you, and appear to be equally talented otherwise, but one of them has put in the dedication and effort to complete coursework as a foundation while the other has done nothing in that direction other than maybe reading a few books, who would you pick?

I don't train other people's dogs anymore, but work in other fields, and for me it has always paid off to take on people who strive to immerse themselves in a topic as much as possible, and who feel capable of challenging me on issues until they are satisfied, instead of just following my lead.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#24
If you had two applicants who are looking to work with you, and appear to be equally talented otherwise, but one of them has put in the dedication and effort to complete coursework as a foundation while the other has done nothing in that direction other than maybe reading a few books, who would you pick?
Depends. Has the one who went to a training school done anything ELSE to further their knowledge? If they continued to apprentice under someone and/or persued more hands on experience through training rescue dogs, going to seminars, and learning about all methods, then sure, I may hire them.

If the person who has only read book, ONLY read books, then no, I would not hire them unless they expressed a serious desire to learn and start from the bottom to work their way up.

Ideally if I was looking for a trainer to hire, not one to train myself from scratch, I'd hire one that has apprenticed under another trainer that I know of and respect, has gotten tons of hands on experience, and can demonstrate for me that they can work several different dogs easily BEFORE I would hire one that simply went to a training school.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#25
And this makes it seem like you are saying that getting certified is the only way to get this knowledge. Which I don't agree with.Again, if you go back and read my post you'll see that I fully believe that experience is invaluable but that alone does not IMO, a trainer make.

Of course I want there to be standards for dog training. I just don't think that someone needs to attend ABC to learn them.
OK, so even though you've never attended ABC, you have decided that their information has no value. How about CPDT? Like Mordy said, at some point someone is going to have to take responsibility for helping to make this an honest, kind and effective and YES...PROFESSIONAL industry. Why not institute some kind of standards, especially when..(if you look at who is on the board of both bodies that I recommended), the people running the seminars that you've said you attend are the ones taking on this challenge.

So I can't offer my viewpoint unless I've taken the course? I have to spend $3000 to give my opinion?
How bout if I talk about the gal that mentored you. I've never met her, don't know her training styles or if she's worth her weight as a trainer....but let me share my opinion on her.....:confused: How on earth can you give your opinion on a course you've never taken??????

I don't understand why you are so against the idea that someone can learn and be a successful, well balanced trainer by apprenticing instead of attending a training school. I know of some very famous and very well respected trainers that never attended such a school. I also know of many others personally that never attended one either.
The problem as I see it is that, and I'm sure you'll agree, too many trainers make up the rules as they go along. I hear things like "just give him a leash correction for this" or "he needs a choke collar for that" from so many trainers who sit in their bubble for years and years and never try to do better. I am frustrated. I do as many or more difficult and varied cases without the use of such things simply because I took the time to learn a better way. Education is invaluable. You can not compare a well thought out certification process to learning something from a trainer who is not certified who learned it from another "self" taught trainer. Again, have you looked into the CPDT cert? I wouldn't have even recommended ABC for someone like you anyway. From what I gather, you are already training dogs and the CPDT is a better fit for someone with prior knowledge/experience. For the OP, ABC was my recommendation as she asked about certification....and where to start.
 

Mordy

Quigleyfied
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
3,868
Likes
0
Points
0
#26
Ideally if I was looking for a trainer to hire, not one to train myself from scratch, I'd hire one that has apprenticed under another trainer that I know of and respect, has gotten tons of hands on experience, and can demonstrate for me that they can work several different dogs easily BEFORE I would hire one that simply went to a training school.
I understand where you are coming from - but people who want to go on to become trainers have to start somewhere, which is exactly what we are talking about here. The OP asked for pointers on how to get started.

Thus I'm talking about people here who want to start gathering experience, not people who already have quite a bit of it under their belt from other working situations.

A program like what ABC offers (not to say they are the only ones or that I'm in any way biased towards them) builds a solid foundation. During the ABC practicum/internship for example, which lasts up to around 20 weeks I believe, students get hands-on experience in "real world" situations as well as a detailed theoretical education. This company is setting the standard to what may very well become the "official standard" you are looking for.

Pioneers doing the groundwork have to exist. Sadly, in areas where things are still developing, it almost always seems to be the case that these pioneers are denigrated in the beginning, until what they do becomes more mainstream, and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#27
Depends. Has the one who went to a training school done anything ELSE to further their knowledge? If they continued to apprentice under someone and/or persued more hands on experience through training rescue dogs, going to seminars, and learning about all methods, then sure, I may hire them.

If the person who has only read book, ONLY read books, then no, I would not hire them unless they expressed a serious desire to learn and start from the bottom to work their way up.

Ideally if I was looking for a trainer to hire, not one to train myself from scratch, I'd hire one that has apprenticed under another trainer that I know of and respect, has gotten tons of hands on experience, and can demonstrate for me that they can work several different dogs easily BEFORE I would hire one that simply went to a training school.
Who ever said that certification was all that was needed. I think that we all agree that would be a ridiculous notion. However, as I stated in my other post, ABC has an apprenticeship program that requires students to observe at least 2 (6-8week) sessions, then to assist in teaching (2 more 6-8week sessions) and finally to teach while being observed. That's AFTER successfully completing an 80% or better in I believe 12 exams on everything from breed specs., disease/illness, class structure, legal issues, business practices...many training styles and more. How many apprentices approach you with that kind of technical and practical experience. Yes they're still raw, but much more prepared than the average dog enthusiast....believe me, I'm approached all the time and the difference is painfully obvious.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#28
Again, have you looked into the CPDT cert? I wouldn't have even recommended ABC for someone like you anyway. From what I gather, you are already training dogs and the CPDT is a better fit for someone with prior knowledge/experience.
And again I say, CPDT is only one group's opinion on how to train a dog. Not the only way. I don't need that designation after my name to prove that I can train dogs and I've done just fine without it as have many other professional trainers.

How bout if I talk about the gal that mentored you. I've never met her, don't know her training styles or if she's worth her weight as a trainer....but let me share my opinion on her..... How on earth can you give your opinion on a course you've never taken??????
Feel free. I'll be happy to say she wasn't perfect. She had her flaws as every trainer does.

I can give my opinion based on what a fellow trainer has told me about taking the course, what I've witnessed in quite a few petco trainers who've taken their courses, and what I've read about them from people with personal experience. I don't have to like them. That's my right. Just as it's your right to love them.

The problem as I see it is that, and I'm sure you'll agree, too many trainers make up the rules as they go along. I hear things like "just give him a leash correction for this" or "he needs a choke collar for that" from so many trainers who sit in their bubble for years and years and never try to do better. I am frustrated. I do as many or more difficult and varied cases without the use of such things simply because I took the time to learn a better way. Education is invaluable. You can not compare a well thought out certification process to learning something from a trainer who is not certified who learned it from another "self" taught trainer.
Sure I can. And I am. Especially if I don't believe that certification is worth anything. I personally feel apprenticing under an experienced trainer for a year or more far outweighs anything ABC could possibly teach.

ABC is a well thought out certification, from ONE GROUP of people who see things their way. As I said before their way is not the only way. Just like my mentor's way is not the only way.

I learned from her, but I took it upon myself to further my knowledge as well.
Which anyone else can do too without the help of ABC.

ETA:
many training styles and more.
What training styles are you saying they teach aside from positive and clicker training. Please explain.

I am frustrated. I do as many or more difficult and varied cases without the use of such things simply because I took the time to learn a better way.
And this is treading into a method debate which I won't touch except to say that it's 'better' by your standards. That doesn't mean it's better by everyone's.
 

Mordy

Quigleyfied
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
3,868
Likes
0
Points
0
#29
silverpawz, I don't quite get your point of view though. On one hand you want some sort of "official standard" to which trainers are held, yet on the other hand you believe that for example "apprenticing under an experienced trainer for a year or more far outweighs anything ABC could possibly teach".

Training philosophies completely aside here, that way it will never be possible to develop, let alone maintain, any "official standard", since in order to achieve that, there is no way around an organized group setting a precedent ("we teach people ___ and ___"), presenting results from a large enough sample to be evaluated ("our principles work well to achieve ___ and ___ and at the same time avoid ___"), which then in turn may become the skeleton of said standards.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#30
And again I say, CPDT is only one group's opinion on how to train a dog. Not the only way. I don't need that designation after my name to prove that I can train dogs and I've done just fine without it as have many other professional trainers.
I can't imagine resting on my laurels in an industry where the science is changing at this rate. As for the Groups that you keep referring to. They are the scientists, Vets and Vet. Behaviorists who support certification (again refer to CPDT)...._:rolleyes: and make it their lifes work to truly do the research so that we do better for our dogs. I'm genuinely surprised that you don't find that not only worth while but very valuable. You said you attend seminars, who DO you find worth listening to then?



Feel free. I'll be happy to say she wasn't perfect. She had her flaws as every trainer does.
I was being fasicous, making the point that my opinion would hold as little value as I don't know her....????:confused:

I can give my opinion based on what a fellow trainer has told me about taking the course, what I've witnessed in quite a few petco trainers who've taken their courses, and what I've read about them from people with personal experience. I don't have to like them. That's my right. Just as it's your right to love them.
Hmmm...why I wonder, have you met so many poor trainers from the program when I have mentored and met so many and had the complete opposite opinion....:rolleyes:



Sure I can. And I am. Especially if I don't believe that certification is worth anything. Again, just your PASSIVE...OPINION!:yikes: I personally feel apprenticing under an experienced trainer for a year or more far outweighs anything ABC could possibly teach.

ABC is a well thought out certification, from ONE GROUP of people who see things their way. As I said before their way is not the only way. Just like my mentor's way is not the only way.

I learned from her, but I took it upon myself to further my knowledge as well.
Which anyone else can do too without the help of ABC.

ETA:

What training styles are you saying they teach aside from positive and clicker training. Please explain. Where in the program do they teach clicker training first of all, and varried degrees of aversives are taught (while diplomatically discouraged for good reason) throughout. It is then left up to the apprentice to decide. Abuse is not tollerated and I can't imagine why anyone would want it any other way.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#31
I said I like the idea of an official standard. If only to weed out the extremly harsh trainers.

But ya know, after pondering it a bit more, how would anyone create such a standard when the viewpoint of methods are so varied. What you may consider harsh, I may not and visa versa. Do we outlaw all collar corrections? Do we force all trainers to use purely positive methods?

I'm all for a standard that proposes a certain rule of ethics when dealing with clients and opposes any harsh physical corrections on dogs, but again, harsh is a matter of opinion and that's where I see the problem.

Mordy, my viewpoint is simply that someone can become a successful and educated trainer without attending a training school. It happens all the time. That's all I'm trying to say.
 
Last edited:

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#32
I can't imagine resting on my laurels in an industry where the science is changing at this rate.
Did I ever say I was resting on my laurals? No, I don't think so.

Again, just your PASSIVE...OPINION!
Just becasue I know you've attended that school does not mean I have to sing it's praises. If I think their certification is not worth more than the paper it's printed on, then I have every right to say so. I don't think I should have to censor my opinion just to make sure I don't hurt your feelings. I'm not taking a personal shot at YOU, I'm expressing my dislike for a company.

Where in the program do they teach clicker training first of all, and varried degrees of aversives are taught (while diplomatically discouraged for good reason) throughout. It is then left up to the apprentice to decide. Abuse is not tollerated and I can't imagine why anyone would want it any other way.
From their site:
This stage is designed to teach you these principles along with many specific training strategies, including, classical conditioning and operant conditioning. Included in this stage are step by step instructions for "Charging up the Clicker, the 21st Century Way", written by Ms. Karen Pryor, a world recognized scientist and author. Ms. Pryor is a founder and leading proponent of clicker training, a worldwide movement involving new ways to communicate positively with pets and other animals.
Well it says in on their website they teach clicker training. (gasp, I looked there, heaven help me) If that's not true than they should remove it.

Really, they teach aversives? They teach how to give a proper collar correction? How to have proper timing? How to use an ecollar correctly? Seriously?

Who said anything about abuse? I didn't.
Is that what you think I advocate? Stringing dogs along and correcting the snot out of them? If so you're very much off the mark.

Just because a method differs from the one you've chosen to use does not make it abuse.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#33
Did I ever say I was resting on my laurals? No, I don't think so.


Just becasue I know you've attended that school does not mean I have to sing it's praises. If I think their certification is not worthy more than the paper it's printed on, then I have every right to say so. I don't think I should have to censor my opinion just to make sure I don't hurt your feelings. I'm not taking a personal shot at YOU, I'm expressing my dislike for a company.
No one asked you to sing it's praises but please don't try to hide behind your "it's not an attack" slant. Saying that a certification that you have not taken but know someone else has, is worthless .....it is what it is. Express your opinion for a certification you know something about and you may be taken seriously...:mad:
AGAIN, your opinion on something you are versed in would be valuable. You have no possible way of knowing about of forming an opinion on a course you have not taken.




From their site:

Well it says in on their website they teach clicker training. (gasp, I looked tere, heaven help me) If that's not true than they should remove it.
Really, they teach aversives? They teach how to give a proper collar correction? How to have proper timing? How to use an ecollar correctly? Seriously? Karen Pryor is on the board. For heaven sakes silverpaws, didn't you say that you clicker train....isn't Karen worthy enough for you to respect?:rolleyes: Actually YES, they absolutely do show how to use a choke chain (notice I didn't call it a "training collar") the way it was designed to be used. They cover in detail physical punishment as well in a very open minded but research based manor....and the consequences of these techniques. I have to add that the fact that you ask the questions that you do about the program just illustrates your lack of knowledge about it. I thought you knew all about ABC. It appears your opinions are weaker than I originally thought.. I suggest you ask all of those ABC graduates that you "know" about the course again and the section of corrections.

Who said anything about abuse? I didn't.
Is that what you think I advocate? Stringing dogs along and correcting the snot out of them? If so you're very much off the mark.

Read the post, I never said that you're abusive...as a matter of fact I gave you an example of why I thought you'd agree.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#34
Karen Pryor is on the board. For heaven sakes silverpaws, didn't you say that you clicker train....isn't Karen worthy enough for you to respect?
Never said I didn't respect her. I may not agree with her 100%, but I suppose that's true of many people who choose to do things differently.
You asked where they said they teach clicker training. I provided the example.

Actually YES, they absolutely do show how to use a choke chain (notice I didn't call it a "training collar") the way it was designed to be used. They cover in detail physical punishment as well in a very open minded but research based manor....and the consequences of these techniques.
So in other words you're saying they teach some aversives but make it clear that no one should use them? How is that being unbiased and allowing a trainer to come to their own conclusions?

I have to add that the fact that you ask the questions that you do about the program just illustrates your lack of knowledge about it. I thought you knew all about ABC. It appears your opinions are weaker than I originally thought.. I suggest you ask all of those ABC graduates that you "know" about the course again and the section of corrections.
I never said I knew all about them. I said I'm basing my opinion on them on what I do know. I've openly stated that I never took the course.

So now you're implying that I'm lieing about knowing a trainer who graduated from ABC? Or that I've seen trainers working dogs who have graduated from there?

I'm a liar now? Nice. Thanks for that.

I have discussed the program with her, But I'm asking YOU these questions because I want to hear YOUR answers. I'm having a 'converstation' with YOU, not her.

No one asked you to sing it's praises but please don't try to hide behind your "it's not an attack" slant. Saying that a certification that you have not taken but know someone else has, is worthless .....it is what it is. Express your opinion for a certification you know something about and you may be taken seriously..
If you want to take what I've said personally I can't stop you. But that's not how it was intended. I'm not angry at you, but obviously I've ruffled some feathers of yours. I'm not sure why you cannot seem discuss this topic without getting upset.

AGAIN, your opinion on something you are versed in would be valuable. You have no possible way of knowing about of forming an opinion on a course you have not taken.
You don't have to take me seriously. It's quite obvious you think I'm full of crap and that's perfectly fine.
The majority of my opinions in this thread are about how someone can become a trainer WITHOUT the use of ABC's program. And I think I'm more than well versed in that since I've done it myself.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#35
Never said I didn't respect her. I may not agree with her 100%, but I suppose that's true of many people who choose to do things differently.
You asked where they said they teach clicker training. I provided the example. But it isn't taught in the manual, it's discussed as a method of positive training. I'm looking at the manual right now, while you're searching for snippets on the web???



So in other words you're saying they teach some aversives but make it clear that no one should use them? How is that being unbiased and allowing a trainer to come to their own conclusions?
That's not what I said. They provide the research as it stands without bias, funny how you would read that (consequences) as telling someone not to use them.



I never said I knew all about them. I said I'm basing my opinion on them on what I do know. I've openly stated that I never took the course.

So now you're implying that I'm lieing about knowing a trainer who graduated from ABC? Or that I've seen trainers working dogs who have graduated from there?

I'm a liar now? Nice. Thanks for that. I'm simply a little shocked that your facts are far off the mark, have to wonder why that is. I did not mean to call you a liar, and I'll assume you didn't mean to call my certification worthless either...

I have discussed the program with her, But I'm asking YOU these questions because I want to hear YOUR answers. I'm having a 'converstation' with YOU, not her.



If you want to take what I've said personally I can't stop you. But that's not how it was intended. I'm not angry at you, but obviously I've ruffled some feathers of yours. I'm not sure why you cannot seem discuss this topic without getting upset.
Silverpawz, I'll bet if we were sitting accross from one another we would probably both be surprised to find how much we agree on, but you cannot expect me to feel that you're second hand information and subsequent negative views are anything other than empty arguement.


You don't have to take me seriously. It's quite obvious you think I'm full of crap and that's perfectly fine. I don't know how you are as a trainer, or as a person for that matter. All you've given me to go on is your opinion of something you have few facts about.The majority of my opinions in this thread are about how someone can become a trainer WITHOUT the use of ABC's program. And I think I'm more than well versed in that since I've done it myself. I too became a trainer without the benefit of a formal education and I can honestly say that I'm much better for having gone back to university and completing the certifications and courses that I have.

I think that at this point we'll have to agree to disagree. I value continued formal education and believe that it keeps me current and helps me to provide my clients with the best service and care possible. I am and have always been an education junkie. I've always looked at learning (from many sources including formal/school) as something that once absorbed is mine to keep to do with what I see fit....a gift. Heck, I learn so much from my clients, their dogs, my students...all are valuable. I still believe that someone starting out can benefit from this and other certification programs designed by top professionals in our industry....JMHO...peace out...
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#36
But it isn't taught in the manual, it's discussed as a method of positive training. I'm looking at the manual right now, while you're searching for snippets on the web???
I'm simply a little shocked that your facts are far off the mark, have to wonder why that is. I did not mean to call you a liar, and I'll assume you didn't mean to call my certification worthless either...
Ah, now who's being passive aggressive??
And yes, I did mean to call it worthless. I think it is. I've been clear about that. That doesn't mean I think YOU are a worthless trainer. For all I know you could be the second coming of dog trainers and the next dog whisperer. Who am I to say you aren't.

I don't know you, I don't know what you've done since recieving your certification, so how can I judge you?

Silverpawz, I'll bet if we were sitting accross from one another we would probably both be surprised to find how much we agree on, but you cannot expect me to feel that you're second hand information and subsequent negative views are anything other than empty arguement.
You've attended this school and are obviously happy with what they provided you, so of course you're going to give the opinion that it's wonderful and anyone who doesn't like it is full of 'empty arguments'. I'd bet that if I DID take the course and still thought it was worthless you'd STILL think I was off my nut. Because you've been pleased with your experience you seem very blinded to the possibility that not everyone was happy with theirs or that ABC may not be turing out the most qualified trainers.

But that's beside the point. The only thing I was trying to say in this thread is that a training school like ABC is not REQUIRED to become a great trainer. That there ARE other options and that those options can produce great trainers. If you are not willing to accept that then I can't make you.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
7,402
Likes
0
Points
0
#37
Ah, now who's being passive aggressive??
And yes, I did mean to call it worthless. I think it is. I've been clear about that. That doesn't mean I think YOU are a worthless trainer. For all I know you could be the second coming of dog trainers and the next dog whisperer. Who am I to say you aren't.
OMG, I was actually serious about not calling you a liar....passive aggressive..WHAT?:yikes: So much for the benefit of the doubt....:rolleyes: (takes WORTHLESS certification and sulks away....) There's just no reasoning with you....WHAT NEXT?

I don't know you, I don't know what you've done since recieving your certification, so how can I judge you?



You've attended this school and are obviously happy with what they provided you, so of course you're going to give the opinion that it's wonderful and anyone who doesn't like it is full of 'empty arguments'. I'd bet that if I DID take the course and still thought it was worthless you'd STILL think I was off my nut. Now there's a thought! Much more useful to just make assumptions and argue those to death..:rolleyes: Because you've been pleased with your experience you seem very blinded to the possibility that not everyone was happy with theirs or that ABC may not be turing out the most qualified trainers.But that's exactly my point, you haven't attended and it seem's that those you know that have, haven't relayed the information accurately if at all.
You insist on calling a certificate worthless even though you know nothing about the school or curriculum...does that sound reasonable to you? Nuff said.
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#38
OMG, I was actually serious about not calling you a liar....passive aggressive..WHAT? So much for the benefit of the doubt.... (takes WORTHLESS certification and sulks away....) There's just no reasoning with you....WHAT NEXT?
Come on. You honestly want me to believe you were being serious about not calling me a liar when you ended that phrase with "and I'll assume you didn't mean to call my certification worthless"
That came across as sarcastic and yes, passive aggressive.

But that's exactly my point, you haven't attended and it seem's that those you know that have, haven't relayed the information accurately if at all.
Just because I know someone who was not pleased with the program does not mean she's relaying inaccurate information. She's just not pleased with it. Why is it so hard to understand that someone may not think ABC is the greatest thing since sliced bread and have valid reasons for thinking so?

haven't relayed the information accurately if at all.
And again with the liar implication. This "if at all" statement comes across as you saying I'm lieing about hearing someone's opinion of the school they attended.

You insist on calling a certificate worthless even though you know nothing about the school or curriculum...does that sound reasonable to you? Nuff said.
I know enough to make an informed desicion on if I'd reccommend that someone take the course or not. I'm not saying that every trainer who comes out of there is horrid at their job. Not at all. I'm sure some of them go on to futher their education, form their own opinions on methods, and make a successful business.

But from what I've seen and herd about the school from someone who has attended ABC and from other trainers who know more than I do about it, my opinion is that it's not worth the money and that they don't provide anything you cannot learn elsewhere as well.

If that offends you I'm sorry. I can't do anything about that.
 
Last edited:

opokki

New Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
138
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
NY
#39
Are you enjoying the course? I'd love to hear the perspective of a current ABC student. What do you think about your instructor? There are a few people who would really benefit from hearing first hand from someone other than me (an ABC mentor). While I am not bias, your insight might be more useful to someone who wants to become a trainer.
So far so good but I'm really only just getting started on Stage 1. My material just came a few days ago so I haven't formed much of an opinion just yet but I will be sure to let you know as I get further into the course. :)
 

silverpawz

No Sugar Added
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
587
Likes
0
Points
0
#40
Opokki, please come back and tell us what you thought of the course once you're finished. I'd be very interested to hear your view on the whole thing once it's completed. :)
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top