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Old 09-04-2006, 10:10 PM
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MomOf7 MomOf7 is offline
Evil Kitty taco eater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WA.
Posts: 3,437

Oh goodness!
I have yet to see a breeder who hasnt had health issues with litters. Its always a possibility with every litter. I know in labs even if you breed a excellent hip to a excellent hip your litter will still have a 5.4 percent of displaysia. Its minimal but its there none the less. When something does come up you feel terrible and offer any support you can that is within reason. You dont sit there and call the person a LIAR! For goodness sake! We cant controll genetics we can only minipulate it with health screening. What is this woman thinking?
TBPC~Fine I have been befriended

Where am I going? And why am I in this hand basket!!!?
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:57 PM
CamzKees CamzKees is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 71

very sad. I feel for the dogs.

If people would research a little bit before they purchased, I doubt there would be bybs.

I'm not saying a person has to be an expert- they just have to reasearch enough to know what to look for in a good breeder, that way they can avoid people like some of the ones posting here on this thread.

Showing is vital if you breed. For those that don't show, I'd like to ask you why you love the dog you breed. What characteristics does that dog possess that makes you want to have one? The reason I bring that up is that that is the whole purpose of showing a dog- preserving the breed standard.

The standard includes temperment, the way the dog carries itself, markings, colorings, all of the beauty of the individual breed.

When sub standard dogs are bred, those characteristics are quickly lost, and the dog breed is diluted. When they are lost or obscured, the purpose of breeding a dog is lost.

I think it would be a good idea to define health testing at some point on this forum, just to let people know that just because a bitch is taken to the vet and declared healthy before giving birth, that it doesn't mean she has been properly tested.

If a breeder doesn 't have both sire and dam (and their sires and dams) on record as being at least CERF and OFA tested, then that dog hasn't been properly diagnosed. It is very difficult for a common veternarian to tell wether a dog's hips, elbows are sound by x rays if that dog is feeling no pain. That is why formal testing of the joints and eyes is so very important.

Also, animals don't seem to feel pain the way people do. They tend to hide their pain. So, for someone to say that it doesn't doesn't "seem like its hurting" is ridiculous. The animal may become used to the pain, may ignore it, or may just have an extremely high pain tolerance.

I know this is a very long rant, but I believe that this is an important issue. I hope that it is a matter of education when it comes to back yard breeders, and not a deliberate oversite on their parts.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:35 AM
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mrose_s mrose_s is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: QLD, Australia
Posts: 12,169

2 year health guarentee? god, shouldn't it be a lifetime?!

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Old 09-07-2006, 09:47 AM
frogger frogger is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 25

Why is it so important to show your dogs if your going to breed them? I wouldn't want the life of a show dog. When are they not be paraded around and manhandled and constantly handled or in a crate ready for there class to come up. At least my dogs can run and play and be a dog. They are loved and pampered but not manhandled and crated all day. Half of the dogs in these dogs shows are "handled" by other people. Not there owners. They sit in the audience and watch. They rake in the big breeding fees when there dog wins. Who can afford these dogs but other show people. I know breeders in my area that show there dogs. Why would I want to travel all over to wait all day for my class to show. This is more stress on the dog. Theres no reason to have a show quality dog if you just want a pet.
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Old 09-07-2006, 10:00 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OH
Posts: 12,940

that is very judgmental of show dogs. Have you ever even been to a real show? I think you should go look up some of Summer's posts and see her show dog romp around in her back yard - being a 'real dog'. By no means are they all "paraded around", "manhandled" or constantly in a crate.

if you just want a pet, there ar thousands in the shelter desperately needing homes...

Edit: and out of curiousity do you breed your 'cockers, doxies, chihuahua's, or pom's' ?

Maddie CGC .:. Cocker Spaniel .:. 13 y/o
Bailey CGC .:. Shetland Sheepdog .:. 6 y/o
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Old 09-07-2006, 10:42 AM
frogger frogger is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 25

The only ones that I have bred so far are my Pom's. The female is 3 years old and the male 2. The rest are too young. I chose them from breeding stock for there temperment and that they compliment each other in size and temperment and that there are no health problems in future litters. I saw both sets of parents to all the dogs. I had that with my one female doxie and she was spayed right away. It was something that was passed to the puppies in nursing only. My vet said you would never had known she had it till the pups were 10 weeks old. And just because one show dog gets to run in the yard doesn't mean everyone is like that. I know most of the ones I know are kept in kennels during the day so as not to ruin there coats or get hurt so they can go to there next show.
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Old 09-07-2006, 10:56 AM
moe moe is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Manchester
Posts: 488

My dogs are shown once a week at the most, they are also shown by myself, the rest of the time they are family pets that romp about like any other dog, for the few times they are in the showring they have my undivided attention, and love it, they are not crated all day as implied, they are placed either in a crate or on a bench next to each other and sleep as they would do at home, dogs dont run around ALL day and to be in a bench or crate for the odd hour is no biggy.

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Old 09-07-2006, 11:06 AM
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tempura tantrum tempura tantrum is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: pacific northwest
Posts: 768

Oh for crying out loud.

Please go to a dog show and SEE my dogs getting "manhandled."

Yes...look at all those happy dogs running around the ring, tails up, barking joyfully, all spark and fun. They must REAAAAAAALLY hate being there.

Puh-lease. Until you've been to a dog show, you'd do best to stop talking about what you CLEARLY don't understand.

My dogs get MORE attention than the average dog as a result of being shown.

And what do you mean by "manhandled?"

A judge can TOUCH them? If more dogs were taught to stand for examination VETERINARIANS everywhere would APPLAUD. My vet LOVES that my dogs are show dogs. They stand happily for exam- even for inoculations, ear inspections, the like. Meanwhile, the people the next room over are busy chasing their dog around the exam room.

If these animals HATED being "paraded" around a ring so much...guess what? THEY WOULDN'T DO IT. At the very least- they wouldn't look HAPPY- and mopy sad dogs don't win. So they aren't shown.

Most dogs at shows ENJOY their crates. It's a quiet and relaxing place to be before ringtime. Mine are only ever crated at shows and in the car. The rest of the time they have free run of the house and yard. They go to the beach, they go on vacation with me. They are "normal" dogs in every sense of the word.

Sorry if I seem annoyed- but I am. I can't stand this kind of crap.
Kan-i, Ryosei, Soboku

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Old 09-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341

Agreed, yes my dogs are show dogs. They don't sleep in crates, (except for the puppy), and run around as they please. In fact, I think being a 'show dog' gives the owners more of an incentive to care for them and spend more time with them. My older girl runs with me DAILY, to keep her in good condition. (shes the only reason I exercise). They get fed a better quality food, not because they are show dogs, but because we show them we learned more about nutrition and how to keep them healthier. Their coats are kept clean, and groomed, so I know the instant one of them gets a scrape or cut or anything else, because they are groomed regularly. They get more socialization, because they HAVE to have it. Before we had show dogs, we just had dogs, yes family pets, but we are MUCH better more informed, and caring owners now that we have spent time in the presence of other people who care about their dogs. There is only so much you can learn from those general care dog books and (sad to say) your verterinarian. When you hang around dog people you will learn so much more, and how much time it takes to care properly for a dog.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:19 PM
peetee07 peetee07 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 20

Absolute hypocryts!! Nothing like dressing your dog in a dress with rediculous bows sticking out of there head and rediculous poodles shaved to conform.I guess that's bettering a breed showing it off so you can reep the awards to have valueble pups when bred. But my goodness don't show your dog in a REAL show and it's abuse. You breeders are darn right rediculous and rude.
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