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  #31  
Old 09-02-2006, 01:02 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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Have you seen this?

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...nicbarking.htm

This is not the same exact situation, but it's still the same principle. Here, she's focusing on what she wants the dog to do rather than focusing on what the dog is doing wrong. This is what science has shown us...that emphasising what you do want vs. what you don't works better...that focusing on the glass 1/2 full is more effective than dwelling on the glass 1/2 empty. (not a great analogy, but it's sort of like that)
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelique View Post
If you are going to apply Cesar's principles, be sure and deal with "mom's" behavior as well. I've found it's almost impossible to work on dog issues, without addressing the humans ones first. This is one of the things Cesar teaches. A house divided will not help the dog.

Have your read Cesar's book? I think you really need to in order to understand his complete philosophy, which the TV show alone will not give you, IMO.
The advise on this thread has been great. Cesar Milan is the last place to look for advise on Canine behavior.
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  #33  
Old 09-02-2006, 04:39 PM
elle elle is offline
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I'm a bit confused here... Why is isolating Ripley and Dakota "impossible" or "bad"? It may be what they need for the time being... At least until you can work the people issues out with Ripley!

You say it is not fair to split your time between two dogs, but then also mention that you have two puppies (that I presume belong to other people) in the house. How is it fair to split your time between other people's dogs and your own dogs when your own dogs have some serious issues that need to be worked out?!

To me it sounds like you are simply looking for excuses to rehome Ripley. If this is the case, then just say so and I'll back off. But, if you're really looking to do what is best for him, then isolation may be what he needs at this point in time. Being kept in the same house, away from the other dogs, with less attention from the people he knows and loves is INFINITELY less traumatic than being uprooted and moved to a new home altogether. If you truly want to honor the responsibility to you made to this dog, you owe it to him to try everything - including keeping him seperate from Dakota.

Also, didn't you have Ripley before you had Dakota? How is it fair to Ripley to be uprooted from his home because you decided to bring in a new dog he cannot get along with? Wouldn't it be much easier to rehome the super spectacular border collie? If you truly want to do what is best for the dogs, but absolutely refuse to seperate them, maybe you should consider rehoming Dakota. Ripley sounds like he has much greater "issues" than Dakota and would really benefit from a stable home. Dakota, on the other hand, despite his one run-in with a stray aggressive dog sounds like he'd do fairly well with a change of environment becuse he'd be able to take it in stride. However, if you want to do simply what you want (have multiple dogs) and not what is best for the dogs, then by all means, rehome your original dog and continue to take on more dogs. Hopefully they'll get along with Dakota so he doesn't eventually have to find an alternative living situation...
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2006, 04:47 PM
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I think the whole "living in a 40-foot RV" makes it "impossible" to keep the dog's seperated.

Some dogs just do not get along, period. Just like people, no matter what you do, they are just not going to like each other. Sometimes it's a quiet "you don't exist if I ignore you" dislike, sometimes it's an active one. This seems to be the active type.

RD is training those other dogs, not just hanging out with them for the hell of it. They are also not there 100% of the time.

I can't answer for her about choosing between Ripley and Dakota, but she has discussed rehoming him before as she doesn't feel that she can provide the right environment for him, since he does seem to be geared to be a one dog only type of guy and she has Dakota, to demanding all the attention all the time, which he can't have since there is another dog in the house...that was a really long run-on sentence.

IIRC, Ripley was gotten with a 13 year old's eye for dogs, where as Dakota was picked with more foresight and goals in mind (herding, agility, etc).
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2006, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
I'm a bit confused here... Why is isolating Ripley and Dakota "impossible" or "bad"? It may be what they need for the time being... At least until you can work the people issues out with Ripley!

You say it is not fair to split your time between two dogs, but then also mention that you have two puppies (that I presume belong to other people) in the house. How is it fair to split your time between other people's dogs and your own dogs when your own dogs have some serious issues that need to be worked out?!

To me it sounds like you are simply looking for excuses to rehome Ripley. If this is the case, then just say so and I'll back off. But, if you're really looking to do what is best for him, then isolation may be what he needs at this point in time. Being kept in the same house, away from the other dogs, with less attention from the people he knows and loves is INFINITELY less traumatic than being uprooted and moved to a new home altogether. If you truly want to honor the responsibility to you made to this dog, you owe it to him to try everything - including keeping him seperate from Dakota.

Also, didn't you have Ripley before you had Dakota? How is it fair to Ripley to be uprooted from his home because you decided to bring in a new dog he cannot get along with? Wouldn't it be much easier to rehome the super spectacular border collie? If you truly want to do what is best for the dogs, but absolutely refuse to seperate them, maybe you should consider rehoming Dakota. Ripley sounds like he has much greater "issues" than Dakota and would really benefit from a stable home. Dakota, on the other hand, despite his one run-in with a stray aggressive dog sounds like he'd do fairly well with a change of environment becuse he'd be able to take it in stride. However, if you want to do simply what you want (have multiple dogs) and not what is best for the dogs, then by all means, rehome your original dog and continue to take on more dogs. Hopefully they'll get along with Dakota so he doesn't eventually have to find an alternative living situation...
As Zoom stated (thank you, Zoom ) I am in a FORTY FOOT RV. There are always people going in and out. Separating them RIGHT NOW is not possible. When I get back to my 4500 sq. foot house, it will be much easier. I still just don't like the idea of splitting up the time that my dogs spend with me - yes, it would be traumatic initially for Ripley to be rehomed, but if he could get all of the attention he wants (which is what I think would make him happier. He loves to be the center of attention) I believe he would adjust beautifully. If he could not adjust, you bet I would take him back. In fact, if he is ever rehomed, I will figure out a way to make his adopters agree to return him to me if at any time in his life, it doesn't work out. But that is beyond the point . . . It seems to me that you don't understand my point in posting this thread - it is not an excuse to rehome Ripley. Honestly, I have excuses to rehome Ripley coming out my ears, but I want to try everything possible (yes, permanent separation from Dakota included) before I resort to that. I don't take the commitment of owning a dog lightly; I'm slightly offended that somebody who does not know me at all would make such an assumption.

I do understand what you are trying to say, Elle, but you are mistaken.

Oh, and the puppies are ones that I am obedience training for their owners. Instead of a conventional summer job, I am doing this. The puppies are not permanent, I have Lucy 1-2 days a week and Nika 3-4 days a week. Nika goes home at night, usually.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.
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  #36  
Old 09-02-2006, 10:02 PM
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RD is quite an accomplished trainer. She's done a lot with dogs and works closely with a trainer. I've "known" Rd for a few years via this and other boards and I know her to be a very caring and conscienteous dog owner who would do nothing which would compromise the well being of any of her dogs for the mere convenience for herself. She's been struggling and trying with this dog for some time.

It is not easy when you have other people in the family interacting with your dog and spoiling any progress you've made by reinforcing crappy behavior. Some dogs are just plain more difficult. But aversives or a lot of positive punishment, avoidance and coersive tactics (ie: CM) is not the way to go, IMO.

Rd...you know your dogs best and you will know what is the best thing for them and for you.
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  #37  
Old 09-02-2006, 10:15 PM
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This is the one method of CM's that I totally agree with. "A tired dog is a happy, well-behaved dog."
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  #38  
Old 09-02-2006, 10:18 PM
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LOL. Yes, I whole heartedly agree. (within reason) He advocates 6 hours a day, I think it is. Holy cow! Who has time or energy for that? LOL.

Of course, excerise isn't his own little secret. That's pretty much common knowledge...I mean, it's been around for a long time and I think most trainers recommend exercise, regardless of their school of thought about other things.
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  #39  
Old 09-02-2006, 10:47 PM
silverpawz silverpawz is offline
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RD, I'm sorry if I was mentioning things you were already aware of. I don't really 'know' you yet and hadn't gone back to read any of your previous threads about this situation.

I'm sure you'll do what's best for you dogs.
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  #40  
Old 09-03-2006, 12:38 AM
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Silverpawz, this is my first thread on this issue. I greatly appreciate your input.

Exercise worked pretty well today. He played high-intensity fetch (i got a bucket of tennis balls and had him running at full speed for a good hour) and didn't have the energy to start any problems. I had friends over today, though, and crated him for a couple of hours. When he came out, he was full of **** and vinegar again but still didn't give Dakota any trouble. I think because he was too busy with the guests. He's become quite friendly to people lately and is actually starting to enjoy attention from strangers.

I want to do the right thing for both of my dogs but I'm not 100% sure what that is at this point.
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