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  #21  
Old 09-01-2006, 09:46 AM
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I wouldn't rush into neutering Dakota if I were in your shoes. He hasn't gotten out of control IMO. It sounds like he communicated to Ripley to knock off the silly business and quit being a pest....nothing wrong with that. A neutered dog would do that. But glad your trainer will do some observing and help you out. Let us know.
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2006, 02:46 PM
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I didn't think he was really out of control. It's very common for Border Collies to deliver little reprimands like that; to other BCs and dogs their size/bigger, that's all it is. To Ripley it's a huge threat and sends him into defense mode, lol. Ripleys little head is the exact size and shape of a tennis ball and he has very thin, fragile skin. It would be so easy for Dakota to hurt him, even if he only meant to correct him.

I wasn't fast enough to body block today - Ripley snarked in Dakota's face and it pissed Dakota off. No harm done, but it sounded like they were both trying to eat each other. Dakota backed off on command but of course, by then, Ripley's brain was gone and he was trying to go after Dakota AGAIN. I had to jump in and grab him. I don't know if that reinforces him for fighting or not. I've been observing them together and maybe it's because I'm such a novice, but I really can't figure out what either one is doing to set the other off. With Ripley being a pest, I can understand why Dakota gets frustrated, but sometimes they will just randomly growl/snarl at one another.

Bah. I hate thinking it but I wonder if Ripley would be better off in a home with no other dogs and a person who'd spend all their time with him. He wouldn't have to deal with sharing (he quite obviously doesn't like to) and could get more attention than he does with me, as I usually keep the boys separated and have to divide my attention between them.
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2006, 07:03 PM
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personally i don't think this is an issue with dakota at all. i think this is a ripley issue and that he needs to learn to knock it the hell off. he doesn't need to be in a home with no dogs. he needs you to teach him that it's not appropriate and that you won't put up with it.

if he were mine, i'd put him in doggy boot camp for a little while, perhaps even with some social isolation on the side. he's disrespectful and pushy and he needs to learn that that kind of behavior is not tolerated.

jmo, of course.
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2006, 07:51 PM
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I think there is probably a bit of telepathic trash-talking going on. I see it in daycare a bunch, and we have to try and keep those dogs on opposite sides of the playground.

Really, it sounds like Ripley just wants to push Dakota's buttons because he can, and you keeping him from getting hurt might be giving him a complex about how he can't get hurt, so he can do whatever he wants to. It's quite tempting to let Dakota lay down the law just once, but the whole size difference and the fact that you do like Ripley...

I know you've thought about giving him to a family friend before, this may just another sign that it might be the best thing.
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2006, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
he doesn't need to be in a home with no dogs. he needs you to teach him that it's not appropriate and that you won't put up with it.
I have to agree with this. Sometimes it's so easy to be a pushover with little dogs just becasue they are so small. (not saying you're pushover, but you get my point) I like the idea of doggy boot camp. Maybe make him drag around a leash so you can easily pick it up and move him out of the way.

Seems like you know what triggers this most of the time. I'd just be very aware of it and always pick up that leash and be ready to tug him away from the other dog, then ask for sit, down or whatever else.

He can learn manners. He's got brain cells when he's being naughty.
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  #26  
Old 09-01-2006, 10:53 PM
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I have to point out one small thing that I think many people are forgetting. RD has a very good idea of what NILIF is and how/when to apply it. I'm pretty sure she's been doing this all along as well. I think what she's getting as is that depsite all her work and training to this point, Ripley still is being a huge brat to Dakota. I know she doesn't just let him run wild like many people with small dogs tend to do.
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2006, 10:58 PM
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Zoom very good point. I'm sure RD has done anything and everything to work on Ripley's problem.

Some dogs are just better off in one dog households. Period. Sure, you can make them behave, and spend all your time and energy to make it so, but that doesn't mean that there won't be the occasional scuffle, and that they wouldn't be better off in a one dog household ultimately.
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2006, 03:59 AM
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I don't allow him to get away with murder because he's small. I do not use physical correction on him because he is small. I have been doing all I can to put him in his place without actually physically doing so. I've consulted two behaviorists (one who actually used the word "dominant" in describing him after seeing him, when the day before she gave me a huge lecture on how dominance and pack theory is a crock) about his attitude and have taken their suggestions, but I'm really not seeing a difference in the boys' tudes towards one another. Their attitudes towards me are much improved, but they still dislike one another. I have tried conditioning them to ignore each other, but that backfired on me . . . I've tried super-duper hardcore NILIF, but that still didn't change them squabbling with one another.

The dogs don't like each other. I try my best to keep them focused on me and keep their little doggie egos in check, but conditions arent always perfect and neither am I. I am sure that by protecting Ripley, I am giving him this invincibility complex, but if I were to simply let Dakota have at him, I know he'd get hurt and it would be horrible of me to put him in that situation.

Elegy, the suggestion of social isolation is a great idea. I've tried it before, but unfortunately I live with my parents. My mother is wild about Ripley and she can't go a day without giving him attention. With 3 humans in a 40' RV, it's not easy to have everybody completely ignore the dog.

Believe me, I've done as much as I possibly can to make these dogs live peacefully together. For the most part, they are okay, but it takes so much effort to get non-reactive coexistance . . . It takes a lot out of them, and it gets me thoroughly burned out on playing the peacemaker. I love both of my dogs dearly but I can't take 10-15 years of hostility. I could keep them separated for their entire lives, but that's just continuing to cut their daily time with me in half. If it's absolutely necessary I will do it, but I know that both of them would rather be with me as much as possible and I'd like to have them be able to. I guess I'm leaning towards rehoming Ripley because I don't think he will ever really "fit". I'll always have at least one other dog, and he's continually proving that he will not peacefully share his living quarters with other dogs.

I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts. Boot camp begins tomorrow. I'm actually going to try Cesar Milan's method of exercising the dog into a "calm-submissive" state of mind. I got Rip a long line and am going to run/swim/work him until he is too tired to pick fights. I usually walk him a couple miles per day, but obviously that isn't enough as he's still incredibly hyperactive.

Thanks.
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2006, 06:30 AM
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We have sorta the same issues w/ Bruzer and Gunnar, though they both instigate each other. Sometimes Gunnar will just walk by Bruzer and Bruzer will launch into a tirade. Other times he wants Gunnar to play, but if things get rough, he freaks out. When that happens Bruzer is the one who gets the reprimand, not Gunnar, because his behavior is not acceptable. Don't start things and then get mad because the big dog lays his paw on you and pins you down.
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2006, 07:21 AM
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If you are going to apply Cesar's principles, be sure and deal with "mom's" behavior as well. I've found it's almost impossible to work on dog issues, without addressing the humans ones first. This is one of the things Cesar teaches. A house divided will not help the dog.

Have your read Cesar's book? I think you really need to in order to understand his complete philosophy, which the TV show alone will not give you, IMO.
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