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  #11  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:16 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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I'm concerned with the reasons too, although they may change with some research and help. You may decide this isn't the breed for you, if you look at everything and be honest with yourself. Or, you may decide that yes, this does sound like a great breed for you and you can learn first and do things right. If you are honest with yourself and really look at all the angles, not just the surface ones, (cool looking, tough etc) you will probably do the right thing for yourself. Spend the time researching first. Don't rush into a decision that can cost you huge heartache down the road and hurt another living and innocent being.

Dobermans are not like a lot of breeds. They're perky, high energy and demanding. And most Doberman experts advise not getting one as your first dog. Now, I know you said you had a couple dogs when you were young. But have you had the practice in training a dog as an adult? As an adult, I would recommend starting with an easier breed. And if you do get a Doberman, a female is easier than a male. (in general) An older rescue might be a better option than a pup. But be careful what they give you. Make sure they have a reputation for matching owners and dogs well. Some do not.

Most all dogs will alert you to danger...to a prowler. It's in the canine's make-up to protect his family. My Chihuahuas make more racket than my Doberman...can hear things further away and sooner than my Doberman. It never fails. I have a .38 in my drawer and I have no need for a Doberman.

I would hate a dog who scared people on account of his behavior. If they're worried about my Doberman, Lyric, it's on account of the breed's reputation....not much more. (except for a couple of occasions where something weird did happen and he went in front of the door and growled) But that's when I was in the shower and alone in the house. He was out in the yard and some man he didn't know came over. He was fine with him in the yard, but when he approached the front door, Lyric scooted up there, sat in front of it and gave a little, throaty growl...not a big to do, but just a little warning growl, where by the guy went further back on the path. Then when I came out, he told me all this. Then Lyric was friendly to him. But he doesn't have a problem with delivery people, nothing. He's definitely stable and not indiscriminately flying off the handle. Part of it is his temperament and part of it is his socialization and training. Without ample socialization, a dog doens't have a clue.

He doesn't bark as much as a lot of dogs. For example, when we're all outside and someone drives up my long driveway, he doesn't bark at all. He just stands there, "duh...." He watches quietly. They can get out of their car and he just mozies on over to see them. He just watches. He's not particularily outgoing at first but not aggressive. If we're in the house, they all bark. But he doesn't bark anymore than any other dog I've ever had except for my Lab. I don't want him to scare people.

When we're on an off leash hike in the woods and we occasionally happen on some other hikers, he minds his own business and isn't concerned with them at all. That's how I like it. They're not doing anything wrong and he knows it.

I hike with my dogs almost every day....a little less in the hot whether. Dobes are not cut out for extreme temperatures and can over heat easily. But they need off leash, good aerobic exercise every day. You have to have a place where you can give them that. Leash walks just don't cut it for a young Doberman or any medium to large, high energy breed. You need to love lots of walking yourself. I'd have to walk from here to Miami to give him enough exercise if all I could do was keep him on a leash. We live on 5 acres so he can run around pretty darn well inbetween his real exercise.

Besides giving them good exercise, they need brain work and lots of it. Without both of those things, their health and behavior will suffer. You need to know about the proper and effective way to train and treat your dog or you will have problems...best if you learn a bunch first, regardless of what breed you get or what age.

Dobermans can be outside to romp and play, go to the bathroom and maybe sun themselves for a while...as long as you have a safe yard with a fence. (I don't have a fence, but I live in the mountains....in the sticks) But I tell you what, most of the time, they can't stand to not be by your side. It's hard to go in the bathroom yourself without company and not just company, but a Doberman will insist on helping you through every step of the way. They're right there like a shadow. It can be irritating to some people. This is the way they were bred. Their noses are into everything. They can't just watch you while you cook. They are sure that they should be helping you. It's their "duty." LOL. If you don't include your Doberman as part of the family, inside with you, he will not be happy and will not tend to make as good a protection dog. Anyow, as far as that goes, they really vary. Some don't have it much at all anymore. They've really mellowed them out.

In much of their training, they are very quick at catching on and willing to try (when you rely on positive method training) but they have times where they're sure you've got it all wrong and they are going to show you a better way. If you fight them tooth and nail and get into a power struggle, you'll get nowhere fast. You have to be creative too. Heavy handedness will ruin this highly sensative dog. (some are more sensative than others)

They are monsters as puppies....really....like they're on crack or something. Adorable and sweet, but into everything every second.

Sure they can sleep with you and do anything any dog can do. When you have a trusting relationship and a dog who understands what you want through proper training, you have one of the most loyal, affectionate, trustworthy dogs there are. I love my Dobe. They need rules and boundaries, just like all dogs. But they have to be taught how to do those rules and boundaries. Consistancy and a good relationship are important. Maintaining trust in you is extremely important. But they must be trained in obedience and practiced every day a little bit.

All these things I read about people having aggression problems....it makes me sad. I can stick my face right into Lyric's face and he loves it. (not natural for many dogs) His ears go flat, gets that lovey, affectionate look and just eats it up. He gives hugs and is a big marshmellow. He never looks worried or nervous with me no matter what I'm doing. We lie on the couch to watch TV and I have my legs draped over his side, as there's not much room. LOL. I've fallen on him in the night, in the dark...right on him...nothing. A stranger by accident stepped on his toe when we were at a garage sale...nothing. He knows what I mean when I say, "off" ....as in get off the couch. I never intimidated him to get off. I simply rewarded him when he did. So, he's glad to get off when I ask. If he's hogging up too much room, I tell him, "turn around" and he gets up and rearranges himself so I can fit too. LOL. That was a little trick I taught him.

But he's taken a lot of time, exercise, oodles of socialization, training, classes, lots of patience....it's taken most of my time during the early days to help him grow and be the nice dog he is. Just like children, they need nurturing and lots of it.

If you want a companion dog only and don't want to spend the kind of time and work it takes with a Dobe or a GSD (I've had them too) get a smaller dog who was meant to be a companion and doesn't require all that exercise and only needs a part time job. LOL. I love my little Chihuahuas too. They're adorable and sooooooo easy. So easy to go traveling with, just satisfied with so little. They're wonderful too.There are lots of smaller breeds which are lovely and medium sized ones too.

Spend some serious time, thinking and reading.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:18 PM
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Wonderful post Julie....so spot on! I didn't see yours when I wrote mine. LOL. Mine is so long, but I wanted to give a feel for what they're like.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2006, 06:19 AM
zaidoo zaidoo is offline
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Thanks a lot Doberluv and everyone for your kind support! Ok I would listen to the more experienced dog owners/lovers and not train my dog to be aggressive but I sure would want my dog to be brave by all means. I will do all research before I finally buy a breed but tat this time I think I'll take Doberman as a challenge and show all you guys what I've done with him.

There is a perosn who I talked to in my region. I don't know him persoannly but he's a friend of my friend. He loves all dogs and live alone with a dozen dogs and he had 2 Dobes which he kept for 5 years. He told me Dobes shouldn't be a problem if you get a puppy Dobe and train him properly. He said it's not 2 hours or 3 hours stuff that matters; he said if you give 15 minutes but do it like 20 times a day then he'll be more happy. According to him he wants more interaction than one long period in the evening. His experience said Dobes are more stable in temparament than GSP who tends to be a bit hyper at times. He said Dobes have more tendency to be a One man dog and are dangerous to children if not trained/exposed properly.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2006, 06:21 AM
zaidoo zaidoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
If you want a companion dog only and don't want to spend the kind of time and work it takes with a Dobe or a GSD (I've had them too) get a smaller dog who was meant to be a companion and doesn't require all that exercise and only needs a part time job. LOL. I love my little Chihuahuas too. They're adorable and sooooooo easy. So easy to go traveling with, just satisfied with so little. They're wonderful too.There are lots of smaller breeds which are lovely and medium sized ones too.

Spend some serious time, thinking and reading.
I don't want a small dog; I want atleast a medium sized dog of the size of Doberman. Which other breeds can you suggest who are brave/loyal/good looking/ guard dogs that require less work than Dobes/GSP ? If you think I should start with another breed.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2006, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaidoo
secondly I like the fact that they are intimidating. When I see them with someone on a walk or somewhere I get so terrified. Well I want a dog to be a DOG; you know not a sissy or a show piece dog.
I didn't buy Bailey b/c i want a Dog to be a Dog......I bought him b/c i have loved the SBT Breed from a very young age.

However, Bailey is the friendliest most loving dog you could ever meet.........but people still cross the roads and take hold of their childrens hands if they see him coming toward them in the street.

You don't have to teach him to have this ability, it comes naturally with certain breeds.

I would just like to add though.......unlike you, i hate it that people are terrified of my dog.

I think that certain breeds have a bad name and that is not fair on them!!
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2006, 08:38 AM
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Julie Julie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaidoo View Post
There is a perosn who I talked to in my region. I don't know him persoannly but he's a friend of my friend. He loves all dogs and live alone with a dozen dogs and he had 2 Dobes which he kept for 5 years. He told me Dobes shouldn't be a problem if you get a puppy Dobe and train him properly. He said it's not 2 hours or 3 hours stuff that matters; he said if you give 15 minutes but do it like 20 times a day then he'll be more happy. According to him he wants more interaction than one long period in the evening. His experience said Dobes are more stable in temparament than GSP who tends to be a bit hyper at times. He said Dobes have more tendency to be a One man dog and are dangerous to children if not trained/exposed properly.
He will be more happy if you and your family are his contstant companion. Not 15 minutes and then outside by himself.
The more time you spend with your dog......the more he will learn, just from everyday experiences and family life.
You should never have structured training sessions that last 2 or 3 hours, but 15 minutes would be more like it for a pup. I think that is what your friend means.
As for the time we are telling you it takes to have a great dog, That includes just spending time with your dog, you can do that many ways. Including the training times. You will have a much more relaxed, less excitable dog the more time you spend with him. Dogs that are kept outside alone tend to be more excitable and take more time to calm down and focus than a dog that lives in your home and has met his "attention quota"
And a dog that is constantly by your side tends to be able to "read" their owners better , as well as the owner being able to "read" their dog better.

I just hope you consider your expectations of a pup or dog. They seem a little to perfect.... you just never know what you could end up with.

Are you willing to have every flower in your yard dug up or laid on?
Not to mention bare parts of the yard where the dog runs back and forth.
Are you willing to clean up poop?
Are you willing to deal with chewing........ I have went thru a total of six garden hoses while my dogs were pups.
Not to mention shoes, purses, toys, bike seats, etc.
Rocket has bit thru about 9 bicycle tires on my sons bike, One tractor tire, Three four wheeler tires, and put holes all thru the kids tire swing, which is made out of a real car tire. Needless to say, she has a thing for tires. And she only does it when nobody is looking. I think we have it under control now, except for the kids tire swing.....

Also if you get a dobe pup.....their ears don't come standing up. They would need surgery for that. And it seems, since you like their looks, you would want that done. Then there are weeks of care after the surgery. I am not familar with much of that, because I have never had any experience with it.

Just trying to give you some more things to think about. As dog ownership is great......but there are trying times and it is not always a bowl of cherries.
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  #17  
Old 08-30-2006, 10:33 AM
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Then there are weeks of care after the surgery.
Would you believe months? LOL. Lyric was 1 yr. old before I could stop posting his ears. Every 3-4 days, they were cleaned and changed. Everytime they got wet from rain, they'd be changed. And you have to learn how. Some people don't even want to do it themselves because if it's done wrong, they will not only not stand, but they'll bend in toward eachother over the top of the head and look like ****. So, they take them to a vet who will do it. But some vets do a lousy job. They don't all know how to do it either. It's a bit of an art all the way around, from the surgery (which the breeder should have taken care of before you even get your pup) to the aftercare. LOL.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2006, 11:57 AM
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Julie Julie is offline
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Would you believe months? LOL. Lyric was 1 yr. old before I could stop posting his ears. Every 3-4 days, they were cleaned and changed. Everytime they got wet from rain, they'd be changed. And you have to learn how. Some people don't even want to do it themselves because if it's done wrong, they will not only not stand, but they'll bend in toward eachother over the top of the head and look like ****. So, they take them to a vet who will do it. But some vets do a lousy job. They don't all know how to do it either. It's a bit of an art all the way around, from the surgery (which the breeder should have taken care of before you even get your pup) to the aftercare. LOL.
Oh....... good information. I knew it was involved, but I didn't realize it could take a year. I also didn't know that the breeder should already have it done.
Learn something new everyday.
I bet that really adds alot more expense on a new pup.
Thanks for the info.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2006, 12:16 PM
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Most reputable breeders (in the US, anyhow) will have the ears cropped by a vet, experienced in this particular art. Not very many vets do it or do it well. It should not be left up to the buyer. Fine breeders do not want their puppies, which carry their good name.... looking like crap or getting infections. Yes, it makes the dog about $200.00 +/- more than it would otherwise. That's aproximately the cost of the procedure.

The ears should be done at around 7 or 8 weeks of age, while still with the breeder. She cares for them until they're all but healed, scabs just about gone or gone. Then all there is to do for the buyer is post. There are some terrific "lessons"/ instructions online. Plus, my breeder demonstrated for me on one of her older dogs.

It was very scary at first when I did it. I was soooooo worried about allowing "pockets" to form. That happens when the tampon (if you're using the tampon method) doesn't get pushed down into the well of the ear firmly enough. Those pockets is what causes the ears to turn inward. Then you have to be sooo careful not to wrap too tightly or too loosely. I was a nervous wreck the first few times and had my neice hold Lyric while I did it.

Within a week or two, I got more confident and it was a snap....took 5 minutes and Lyric also got so used to sitting nicely on my lap and holding still. It was sort of a bonding experience for us. He learned early what patience and tolerance is, how to "hold it." LOL. Sometimes he'd sleep right through it and I'd do it on the couch. LOL.

It's just a soft tampon with some special (not too sticky) tape back-taped and then placed into the ear, wrapping the ear around it and wrapping something around that. I used paper tape for the outside and vet wrap over that, but that would have to be pre-stretched and checked often that it wasn't too snug. You can't allow the circulation to be cut off. Extreme care must be taken with that.

Anyhow, his ears turned out great, but took a few months longer than some dogs. It depends on the ear leather and other factors.
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2006, 04:10 PM
zaidoo zaidoo is offline
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I want a Doberman and I'll buy a Dobby if not I'll buy a GSD and I'll train him the way I want and will keep you guys updated. Thank you all!
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