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  #11  
Old 08-27-2006, 09:48 PM
AnimalLoverCatRescuer AnimalLoverCatRescuer is offline
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The problem with breeding is that it has gotten out of hand. People are in it for the money and not to produce perfect flawless healthy REGISTERABLE dogs. The compeltely ethical reputable breeders out there are so few compared tot eh puppymillers and BYBs just in it for the money. There would be no problem at all if there were just a handful of breeders for each breed. I wish there would have been some sort of restrictions on breeding, like certain tests you have to pass or licenses you have to hold to show you know what you are doing. Imagine that, the real breeders would pass with flying colors and the BYB/puppymillers would be like huh? I never heard of x-raying hips and elbows (or whatever) why would I do that it would cost too much?

The other problem with breeds like the designer mutts (peke-a-poos, puggles, doodles, etc) is that they are not registerable and the "breeders" don't do any sort of testing and certifications beofre they begin breeding. They are purely in it for the money because people are moronic enough to pay $1000 for a mutt. I mean, we owned a Border Terrier Lab mix when I was little. Should we have let him breed and sold his Borlab puppies for $1000? The whole idea of that is just absurd. They are no different then shelter mutts either. Neither one is likely to have been tested at all. Maybe the shelters should go around determining what 2 breeds each dog looks like and posting their "breed" as that and more people would come and adopt them
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2006, 01:55 AM
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tempura tantrum tempura tantrum is offline
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As far as Shibas go, it IS preserving history. A look back in breed books will give you proof of that. Our dogs look very similar to those of yesterday- and it's due to the concentrated effort first of NIPPO, and now many American breeders.

Furthermore, many of them are EXCELLENT hunters. Both Tai and Kimi have successful boar hunters just 2 generations back. I believe The Ryukyu program in Japan actively hunts with these dogs, and they're not alone. My two both go back to Ryukyu dogs, and those lines have not been diluted in my animals by any means. My backyard is a burial ground for small woodland creatures. My own bitch has successfully killed birds, mice, rats, and possums to name a few. I've seen an adult Shiba bitch from my girls' lines take a bird straight out of the AIR.

In short...as far as GOOD breeders go, Shibas are doing pretty darn well.

I believe much of this has to do with the fact that our standard is very functional. What is ugly in a Shiba also just happens to be non-functional for a hunting dog. Over-angulation, short tails, skittish, snappy (or overly friendly and goofy) temperaments, etc. etc.

As a whole, I'm very proud of American Shiba breeders. I think as the years go by we've generally produced typier and typier animals. Japanese breeders are realizing that we are very serious about doing this right- and because of this, they're entrusting better and better dogs to our care.

In terms of Shibas at the Humane Society- when I'm not at school in Oregon, I volunteer at the Tacoma Humane Society as well- small world! I've seen a few of the dogs labeled "Shiba" there-and to be honest, at least 2 of them (that I saw), were mis-labled Jindos. (Which are getting quite popular in the Tacoma area- go figure!) Without going so in-depth that I bore every one to tears, they were too tall for our standard, and had no urajiro, which is a dead give away. (The Japanese make a point of noting that a Shiba missing urajiro just isn't a Shiba). I did see a lovely white boy the last time I volunteered. However, such a sighting is disheartening. We really discourage the breeding of white Shibas (they're not an acceptable color), and while even the best breeders have litters with them, they're *usually* pretty rare. When they start showing up in shelters, you know that pet store/BYB types have gotten a handle on the "RARE- WHITE SHIBA!!" market, and are milking it for all it's worth...

I hate to see my breed getting popular. They really shouldn't be. They're horrid dogs for 99% of the population.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2006, 02:15 AM
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Babyblue5290 Babyblue5290 is offline
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Hey Tempera Tantrum I wonder if I've seen you at the shelter! I'm there pretty often! Small world huh! lol

I've seen so many of their dog breeds mis-labeled! lol It bugs me a bit but oh well lol
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:38 AM
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I wonder if we have too!

LOL- the amount of times I've seen what is clearly a pitbull mix, labeled as a Lab...well I can't even count them anymore. But I'm certainly not going to correct them on that one!

I actually had a friend accidently adopt a pit mix because of this. Her Mom had made one request when they went to the shelter- "No pitbulls." She was terrified of them. I think about a week after they had adopted "Oly," they were walking him down the street when someone complimented them on their pitbull's extraordinarily good manners. Her mom absolutely freaked out when she realized this person knew what they were talking about.

Nevertheless- he's now a well-loved member of the family!
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinksmama View Post
but most of the breeds we love now, are so different from the breed standards of 30 or 40 years ago, some of them are hardly the same animal! Like bulldogs, they seem to be bred no with an eye toward enhancing flaws and weaknesses, while they're totally cute with those smushed faces, they can't even breathe properly!
I do under stand what you are saying. Lol.. the smushed faces are cute, but there is a reason for it. They are the same as they were in the 1800's when they were bred for bullbaiting. The short muzzle and wide lower jaw were needed for the dog to clamp itself to the bull's nose like a vise, and the nose had to be upturned so that the dog could still breathe while clinging to the bull. They also had to be low to the ground in order to avoid the bulls horns. They are acually very close to the original bulldogs back then. When bullbaiting was outlawed the use for them deminished and the breed was going to die off, but a few who loved the breed decided to try to keep the breed alive. Though ferocity was no longer desirable they wanted to retain all the dog's other great qualities.They proceeded to eliminate the undesirable characteristics and to preserve and accentuate the finer qualities. Scientific breeding brought results, so that within a few generations the English Bulldog became one of the finest physical specimens minus its original viciousness.
Even though what they were used for was crul and thankfully is now rightfully illegal. If the few people who loved the breed wouldn't have bred then we wouldn't have these wounderful dogs around anymore.
I do agree 100% with what AnimalLoverCatRescuer said though.
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  #16  
Old 08-28-2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempura tantrum View Post
I wonder if we have too!

LOL- the amount of times I've seen what is clearly a pitbull mix, labeled as a Lab...well I can't even count them anymore. But I'm certainly not going to correct them on that one!

I actually had a friend accidently adopt a pit mix because of this. Her Mom had made one request when they went to the shelter- "No pitbulls." She was terrified of them. I think about a week after they had adopted "Oly," they were walking him down the street when someone complimented them on their pitbull's extraordinarily good manners. Her mom absolutely freaked out when she realized this person knew what they were talking about.

Nevertheless- he's now a well-loved member of the family!
Yeah that's one that I won't correct either! I think the one breed I see mis-labeled the most is Catahoula Leoperd dogs! I've see them labeld as lab/australian shepherds lol
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  #17  
Old 08-28-2006, 04:38 PM
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I totally understand what you are saying.. I've thought that way too.. thinking "Is breeding to better a breed still a good reason when SO many other dogs are dying from homelessness?"
So in a way I agree.. however I don't think respectable breeders should stop breeding.. I wish there was some way to put a hold on any breeding at all.. then all the homeless pups would get homes.. then the breeding could pick up again.. only reputable breeders of course.. and then the problem would be solved.. the only way something like that could ever happen is through very very strict laws that I'm sure will never be passed..
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  #18  
Old 08-28-2006, 04:46 PM
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Caren+Bailey Caren+Bailey is offline
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I don't think that respectable Breeders should stop breeding.
However i don't understand why if it's a BYB people always say about the puppies ending up in a shelter.
I mean to me if a dog is a mutt or a purebred it also has a chance of ending up in a shelter.
There is no gaurauntee (sp) that b/c you are selling a purebred "Pet quality" (not show b/c they are being taken to be shown) dog to someone that is going to have it for life with no reason for putting it in a shelter.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2006, 12:36 PM
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Hi! new here, but I thought this needed a response. Most responsible breeders have contracts that require the dogs to go back to the breeder, not to a shelter, rescue or even sold or given to anyone else. Hence the name responsible! my contracts are 5 pages long and my people know that not only do they risk legal actions if they give away their puppies, but my rath which is much much worse! my puppies are all sold on a co ownership as well as a s/n contract (unless show quality). No matter where they live, they are my dogs!
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  #20  
Old 08-31-2006, 12:43 PM
casablanca1 casablanca1 is offline
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the smushed faces are cute, but there is a reason for it. They are the same as they were in the 1800's when they were bred for bullbaiting. The short muzzle and wide lower jaw were needed for the dog to clamp itself to the bull's nose like a vise, and the nose had to be upturned so that the dog could still breathe while clinging to the bull. They also had to be low to the ground in order to avoid the bulls horns. They are acually very close to the original bulldogs back then.

You've got to be kidding. English Bulldogs today suffer from dwarfed legs, hips so narrow they can't give birth naturally, and faces so screwed up they can't breathe properly. This is hardly the picture of a dog who can hold its own against a bull. I think the original EBs were more like today's English Staffs.
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