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Old 08-26-2006, 03:42 PM
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Default ??? Breeding at all the right thing to do?

Ok, I don't want to get totally flamed here, but I have a question.... I've read a million reasons why mixed breeds on purpose are a bad idea... too many dogs, etc. Then why is it ok to breed dogs of the same breed? if this world is too full of animals without homes, why continue to populate? And if you truly don't make any money or benefit from breeding ,say, 2 champion labs, b/c of vet costs, then why do it at all?
IMO,and it's just IMO, there are too many unwanted animals, and I just can't see in my mind why it's ok to continually overpopulate with'breeds" vs. just regular old mutts,and spaying etc as needed...
Please don't yell at me! I don't breed dogs, never will, but i also am not into 'breeds' as being so special! To me a good dog is a good dog, and they're all valuable to their families!
and on petfinder.com, there are literally 1000's of purebreeds,and my mutts will never be up there, if I got 10 more mixes, i'd spay and care for them.same as if I got 10 more and they were pure...
isn't it all, when you get right down to it, us humans meddling where we maybe have no right to? For instance,what makes someone,a breeder of poodles superior to a breeder of pekepoos? in 20 years, those pekepoos will probably be recognized anyway... and in the end, they're just dogs,if they have responsible owners, they'll be cared for, if not, they'll end up homeless.
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Old 08-26-2006, 03:54 PM
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You have a good point.
Or you could look at it this way too.
If every dog owner and breeder was responsible there would be no unwanted pets
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:01 PM
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I never understood the "Too many animals in need of homes" reason. It doesn't make since to me.

The reason to continue breeding outstanding purebred dogs is just to be sure there will be oustanding purebred dogs. Imagine if all the reponsible breeders stopped breeding their dogs. The only ones who would continue to breed are the irresponsible ones or the ones who have accidental litters. All is well and good if you just want a pet, but what if you want something specific? A dog to herd your sheep? A certain behavior trait or personality? A certain size of dog? And I doubt all the "accidental" litters will be health tested, either. If all responsible breeders stopped breeding, it would be a complete disaster to the domestic dog as we know it.
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:44 PM
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I have to side with Gempress on this one...

The key to responsible breeders is the reason BEHIND why they breed in the first place, preservation. If we lost responsible breeders we would loose purebred dogs as we know them. Dogs are not only companions, but to some people they are a very necessary tool to complete different jobs. i.e. police dogs, search and rescue, guide dogs for the blind, hunting dogs, herding dogs. Breeders that breed dogs and DON'T make money at it are doing it because they love purebred dogs and they love to preserve their original purpose.

I agree that a mix holds no more value IMO than does a purebred, but you will find that the breeders who purposely breed mixes generally do so in an irresponsible manner. Top breeders who breed purebred dogs require the dog ALWAYS be returned to them in a situation where an owner can no longer keep it. They are responsible for every dog they bring into the world for it's entire life. If everyone who bred dogs had this requirement then there would be a lot less dogs ending up homeless. This is why in general, the majority of dogs you see in shelters are mixed breeds...
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Old 08-26-2006, 05:01 PM
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i dont mind people breeding as long as they have a REASON
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Old 08-27-2006, 01:26 AM
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Gempress and Showpug- fantastic! I agree 100%

It's a cute thought to imagine everyone in the world taking a "breeding hiatus" to cure the pet overpopulation program. But that's all it will ever be. As Gempress pointed out, the only people that would be halfway likely to follow such an initiative would be the responsible ones. Puppymillers and BYBs could give a flying rip- they'd continue to do what they've been doing for ages.

Thus, it makes FAR more sense to me to come up with realistic and constructive solutions to a problem- solutions that could actually be implemented. Nevermind the fact that preaching to responsible breeders is preaching to the choir. Responsible breeders produce so few litters each year (and they KNOW where all those puppies are, have S/N contracts on them, keep in touch with owners, etc.), that they're really not the problem.

And Gempress is right on the money. Breeding specific kinds of dogs is a way to preserve history. It is also the only way that some people can own a dog at ALL.

For example...ME.

When I was buying my first dog, my requirements were incredibly strict. So strict in fact, that the ONLY breed that fit them was the Shiba Inu. Ten years ago you could've checked every rescue in WA, and you wouldn't have found a Shiba (in fact, in volunteering at the Humane Society for the past 6 years I have found a grand total of ONE). And even if I HAD found a Shiba, the liklihood that it would tolerate cats and infants (and be show-quality), was slim to none.

I don't see purebred dogs as having any more inherent worth than the muttlies. It's just that I have fallen in love with this breed- this breed that was the ONE that fit my lifestyle. I also love showing dogs. It's a great hobby, one that I have dreamed of pursuing since I was 8 years old. Obviously, I couldn't do this with a mixed breed dog.
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Old 08-27-2006, 11:35 AM
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Thanks for your replies... Ok, i understand the necessity of a breed, like a working dog, or just b/c one is particulary appealing...but I'm not 100% sure it's preserving history,honestly. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, It's just weighing in my mind... but most of the breeds we love now, are so different from the breed standards of 30 or 40 years ago, some of them are hardly the same animal! Like bulldogs, they seem to be bred no with an eye toward enhancing flaws and weaknesses, while they're totally cute with those smushed faces, they can't even breathe properly! it appears to me,and i love watching dog and cat shows, etc- that what we have for standards today are not too similiar to the past champion dogs, so it's not preserving history, it seems that each decade brings a new refinement to what a dog should be, and then it gets bred into them for better or worse! Like chihuahuas are tinier, bulldogs are smushier, lhasa's have this flowing fur like nothing in nature...etc. Do you know what I mean?
And the working ones seem to look very different from their previous generations too, so I don't think for a lot of breeds it's history, though for some they haven't been altered too much in 50 years or so, but rather mankind "creating" some desired look/trait into a line of dogs- which again is simply people encouraging more dogs into an overcrowded dog world...
But again, i can see the joy of saying, "I love poodles",and being able to go look for a poodle.
I guess the whole thing I think is it really has not as much to with 'breed perfection' for most of us, as it seems to change with the times anyway, but the hard cold reality of 2 kinds of people in this world, those who take care of their animals and those who don't.
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Old 08-27-2006, 12:46 PM
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for me, it's about health and temperament. we need responsible breeders out there breeding for the right reasons. we need breeders who are x-raying hips and elbows, CERFing eyes, checking thyroids, doing holter tests. we need people who are breeding with an eye to the correct temperament- who are not producing fearful, snappy labs, who are not producing human-aggressive or fearful pit bulls, etc.
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Old 08-27-2006, 01:51 PM
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I get what you are saying. It's something I've been thinking about for a while, and I've turned it over in my head so many times it's now a twisted ball of yarn Every time I think I figure out my stance on it, I start seeing things a different way. Have you read Ray Coppinger's book? I think that's what started all this confusion for me!

Some purebred dogs do still serve their original pupose, although it seems to me that some mix breeds can do it just as well. I know of someone who imported their herding dog from Australia (I think), because they produce the "best mix" for herding. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was mostly border collie with smaller amounts of 2 or three other breeds included. The dog worked every day, and apparently did a fantastic job. And really, I wonder what the percentage of border collies who actually are herding as a living is. I would guess that it is quite small compared to the total population. And I do mean herding for a living, not being trained just for herding competitions. After all, those are for our amusement, and I don't know that it is necessary to breed for that.

And what about breeds who have such extreme health problems? The bulldog was mentioned. Are there any working bulldogs left? And if there are, are they the type being produced by responsible show breeders? Is it okay to breed a dog who has such issues because we like them?

But, then again, it's like the gun ban arguement. If guns are banned, the only people who will have them are the criminals. Backyard breeders shouldn't be breeding dogs with issues either, and they certainly shouldn't be the only ones breeding.

I honestly don't think anything will ever change. People are too set in their ways, and too passionate in their beliefs, to allow change. I (in my personal, passionate belief ) think an ideal situation would be to change the way dogs are registered. Most types of Warmblood horses are required to be tested by their parent organization before they can be approved for breeding, or be given full registration. A group of individual judges approved by the breed group inspects the animals at certain ages, and decides if they fit the breed standards. Some organizations require performance results and x-rays as well. You still have people breeding and selling unapproved horses, but at least it is clear they either have not been tested, or did not fit the breed standards.

Unfortunately, I really don't see it changing at any point.
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the hard cold reality of 2 kinds of people in this world, those who take care of their animals and those who don't.
I think that's the clearest answer we'll ever get on the subject.
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempura tantrum View Post
When I was buying my first dog, my requirements were incredibly strict. So strict in fact, that the ONLY breed that fit them was the Shiba Inu. Ten years ago you could've checked every rescue in WA, and you wouldn't have found a Shiba (in fact, in volunteering at the Humane Society for the past 6 years I have found a grand total of ONE). And even if I HAD found a Shiba, the liklihood that it would tolerate cats and infants (and be show-quality), was slim to none..
I volunteer at the shelter in Tacoma and since I've been there (a bit more then a year) there have been a total of 5 shiba inu's (2 being mixes, but obviously mainly shiba) at our shelter. One was just a gorgeous dog!! She was just completley gorgeous!
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