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  #12  
Old 08-21-2006, 05:30 PM
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I havent read the whole thread. Doberluv, you write too much, lol.

Firstly, dog do NOT work for us, they work for something that benefits them. The way I see it is that a dog either works for a motivator (food, toys ect) or to avoid a negative experience (corrections). Clicker training is just marking a behavior and rewarding it. You MUST reinforce a behavior with something the dog will enjoy. Later on you can whene the dog off of treats but they are essential for training (unless you are a Kohler trainer, who uses nothing but force). Caza still gets treats till this day, just not as often, but I like to remind my dogs when they are doing something good.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2006, 07:15 PM
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I actually was going to make the same post. Glad this info was already here. Kota knows basic commands but is slow in performing them. I want her to learn more and better her already known commands.
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2006, 07:33 PM
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I don''t use one but i do have a marker word for pin-pointing the correct action (I use the word "yes"). I''m sorry but when I''m out on the trails on a training run, I have enough to worry about let alone juggling a silly clicker as well.
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  #15  
Old 08-21-2006, 08:29 PM
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Thank you for all of the wonderful information Doberluv! Yes, I am familiar with the Karen Pryor books. I had actually got one for my cat, but that didn't work out so well (don't worry, I know dogs are totally different ). I will definitely try it out now. Thanks again!

Edit: Also, can clicker training be an aid for housetraining? Charlie is making absolutely NO progress with housetraining and is almost 6 mos old now. I understand that his breed is hard to housebreak in the first place, but I'm just about ready to pull the last strand of hair out of my head!
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2006, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis_doggies
We have tried clicker training with many dogs, and found that it doesn't work. Perhaps it works better on other breeds, but for Ridgebacks it certainly doesn't.
Actually there was a Ridgeback in my clicker class that was doing quite well.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2006, 08:41 PM
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Default Clicker Training...

I donít have a lot of experience training, so I took some classes at the local MSPA; they use positive reinforcement and clicker training. Bella recently graduated from level 2 obedience class. I have to say the results are excellent. We practice every evening. I take about half of her dinner kibble and put it in the treat bag and let her work for her dinner. Her recall, sit/stay, wait etc have really improved.

I think it would be helpful to take some classes. Having someone experienced to show you the correct way is a good idea. They can also point out your mistakes you may make.
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2006, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
I havent read the whole thread. Doberluv, you write too much, lol.
I know. I even made a thread once asking for help. I've looked for support groups and I can't find any. They won't read my posts to find out what I need help with.

I'm also writing a book. It will be very expensive if it is published and it will rival in size to newest Webster's dictionary. (just kidding) I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.

Quote:
Also, can clicker training be an aid for housetraining? Charlie is making absolutely NO progress with housetraining and is almost 6 mos old now. I understand that his breed is hard to housebreak in the first place, but I'm just about ready to pull the last strand of hair out of my head!
I'm not sure that a clicker would make a world of difference with that. You would be marking the behavior but potty training is one exception where it is better to not talk or get the dog excited or he may stop in mid stream. So, you wait until he's just finished and praise and give a treat. The trick to potty training is to prevent accidents inside, show him the one place in your yard where he should go, give reinforcements for it. Punishment, (I don't know if you're using that or not....just in general) if he goes inside is a mistake and combined with accidents, he only learns that it's dangerous to go in that spot or go in front of you. If that place is a no no, there here are all kinds of other places he could go in the house that would be just fine. (according to him) So, prevent accidents. Don't take your eyes off of him while loose in the house until he's reliable.

Quote:
Kota knows basic commands but is slow in performing them. I want her to learn more and better her already known commands.
A clicker is great for something like that. You can shape the behavior. Look at those sites and find out more. Briefly....(yada yada yada...I know you don't believe that for one minute) you click/treat for pretty good responses. Then you don't. You up the ante. You don't c/t for slop. Now she tries harder to guess what it is she is suppose to do to get the c/t. She's guessing. She doesn't know what you want yet. When she happens to do it just a tad better than before, c/t. When she's doing it at that level....(the tad bit better) after several times, you again withhold and she again tries harder...gives a little faster or a little tidier. Then c/t. Soon, you only c/t for the very best responses. When the dog does the behavior beautifully, just how you want, you jack pot...give them the whole bag of treats and call it a day. Don't keep going. Go play or something. You want to end on that and not risk the dog messing up again for that day.

The beauty of it is that once a dog has been training using this shaping method, they start getting smart. They start learning how this thing works and how they need to think and try to get the treats. Be sure and use lower value treats for easy stuff, low distraction areas and use high value treats for more difficulty.

Sorry about my long posts. I try to put in a lot of detail, as far as I can think of it as I go because a lot of times people only get a little of the info and then they say, "It doesn't work." Nothing could be further from the truth.
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  #19  
Old 08-21-2006, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Kota knows basic commands but is slow in performing them. I want her to learn more and better her already known commands.


A clicker is great for something like that. You can shape the behavior. Look at those sites and find out more. Briefly....(yada yada yada...I know you don't believe that for one minute) you click/treat for pretty good responses. Then you don't. You up the ante. You don't c/t for slop. Now she tries harder to guess what it is she is suppose to do to get the c/t. She's guessing. She doesn't know what you want yet. When she happens to do it just a tad better than before, c/t. When she's doing it at that level....(the tad bit better) after several times, you again withhold and she again tries harder...gives a little faster or a little tidier. Then c/t. Soon, you only c/t for the very best responses. When the dog does the behavior beautifully, just how you want, you jack pot...give them the whole bag of treats and call it a day. Don't keep going. Go play or something. You want to end on that and not risk the dog messing up again for that day.

The beauty of it is that once a dog has been training using this shaping method, they start getting smart. They start learning how this thing works and how they need to think and try to get the treats. Be sure and use lower value treats for easy stuff, low distraction areas and use high value treats for more difficulty.

Sorry about my long posts. I try to put in a lot of detail, as far as I can think of it as I go because a lot of times people only get a little of the info and then they say, "It doesn't work." Nothing could be further from the truth.

I appreciate detailed posts. That means you know what your talking aobut! lol. I've been asking around a lot about other's opinions on it. One concern I see come up is that if they hear a click similar then they sit or do something they were trained to do with the click... and without the clicker there they won't release from that pose. Now, One person has said this and I'm not certain if this is a genuine problem or just that one dog. But her idea is that a click from a door, or a click from a lamp will get them confused with the clicker for training. Any thoughts on that?
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
The trick to potty training is to prevent accidents inside, show him the one place in your yard where he should go, give reinforcements for it. Punishment, (I don't know if you're using that or not....just in general) if he goes inside is a mistake and combined with accidents, he only learns that it's dangerous to go in that spot or go in front of you. If that place is a no no, there here are all kinds of other places he could go in the house that would be just fine. (according to him) So, prevent accidents. Don't take your eyes off of him while loose in the house until he's reliable.
I know
When I'm not supervising him 100% he's in his crate. Most of the time he's outside playing with me, sitting on my lap, playing inside (but mostly outside so we don't have to worry about preventing accidents), or on a walk. The only time I correct him is I see him in action. I scoop him up and bring him out right away. Lots of praise to be followed
I don't think he's getting the message though.

I'm starting to hijack my own thread LOL
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