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  #11  
Old 08-21-2006, 09:48 PM
LabBreeder
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This is the e-mail I got from the Keeshond breeders. If you can even understand it. They want to see pics of MY dogs. You think I should send some?
Notice how they say they are not BYB's but sell their pups for pets and they don't show. They never mention a health guarantee, any titles, health checks, or comment about "Keeshonds" vs "Keeshonden". LMAO Stupid people, IMO.

i am not a back yard breeder an the information you read about the Keeshondons an Shelties is from PUPPY FIND .com. ,an i do know my colors, an i don't run a puppy mill,those 2 litters that are on my site are the frist time them females had puppies an they are 2 years old,i do not inter breed or do i breed back to back,an the puppies i do sell i make sure they go to good homes as pets ( NOT SHOW DOGS ), If you don't like my dogs or site please keep your opinion to yourself, i have many very happy buyers . I do this not for the money but to make people happy.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2006, 10:25 PM
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canadianmandy canadianmandy is offline
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talk about bad spelling...
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2006, 10:59 PM
CamzKees CamzKees is offline
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Yowsa... Keeshondon, huh? LOL!!!!!!! Awesome. I'm SO GLAD these people are breeding. (sarcasm dripping)

There is something I read once, that went something like this:
Not every dog that comes out of a "show" breeding will be show quality. In the instance of keeshonden, a part down the back, white feet, a tail with out a black tip, etc all are minor faults that immediately disqualify a dog from being shown. Light eyes, some coat colors such as brindle, white, black, orange and creme (all of these are rare) are also disqualifiying.

With that being said, if you're not breeding dogs that meet the standard, with every litter the quality of those dogs will go down and down. Sure, at first there may be a part down the back, or white feet, but then you'll find luxating patellas at a young age, alopecia x, heart conditions, seizures, hip displasia, rage disorder, you name it.

With every generation, the things that you were breeding for in the first place are lost- such as the great temperment, very few health problems, agility ability, the sheer beauty of the breed are gone. Then, you have a dog that doesn't even LOOK like a keeshond, or a sheltie, or a lab, or whatever dog you're going for.

The people who buy them then put them in shelters because they have severe health problems, or temperment problems. That's why I so dislike casual breeders- it's so unfair to everyone, the dogs especially.

If you're not breeding to standard, then why breed at all? What's the point? If the person truly loved the breed, they'd breed to standard for the health and beauty of the animals so dear to them. If they truly loved the breed, they'd show! They'd pay that $30 to enter their dog. They'd be proud of what they have- not hide their dogs in shame. That leaves money, which makes more sense to me.

Yeah, it costs more money, but what's money when you really truly love something more then you love yourself or profit?

Sorry, it just really makes me angry. This is my opinion, and I know there are people who would argue up and down with me on it, but it seems that the people that argue always put money first, or what a great deal they hope to get on their dog...

Sad. Anyway, thanks for e-mailing them. I figured their e mail would sound something like that- ignorant and misguided. In all likelyhood, they'll learn the hard way. Some angry owner will call and want to know why their puppy is suddenly viscious, or walks with a horrible limp and is only 6 months old.

*sigh*
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2006, 11:36 PM
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I sent another email after I received that one asking why they hadn't actually answered my questions. LOL Also asking why they wanted to see what my dogs looked like all of a sudden.
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2006, 06:01 AM
braveheart braveheart is offline
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This is really sad when others have to put others down , just to make them selfs feel important.
Maybe this person is just starting out or something.
Did you ever hear the saying: treat others as you would want to be treated.
so all i have to say is shame on you!
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2006, 04:42 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart
This is really sad when others have to put others down , just to make them selfs feel important.
Maybe this person is just starting out or something.
Did you ever hear the saying: treat others as you would want to be treated.
so all i have to say is shame on you!
I seriously doubt that anyone here enjoys putting these people down. I'm sure we all find it very, very sad that 2 wonderful breeds are being hurt by this "breeder".

And, no, there is no excuse for her "starting out", or "something". None at all. If she were to even exchange 3 words with the breed clubs of either breed, she would know better. If she would venture beyond her own little world of "making people happy" and supplying the overpopulation, she would know better. If she would attend a single dog show, she would know better... I could go on

If no one cared enough to call her out on this, she would never even have a chance of learning, because this lady sounds like a total ignoramus. I admire people who go OUT OF THEIR WAY (ie Labbreeder & Kees) to try to improve the lives of those poor dogs & to try to educate that lady. It's a lot better than sitting around, doing nothing, saying nothing, and simply complaining... or even worse, turning the other cheek, IMHO. Nothing bad in the world, including horrible breeders, is going to change unless more people are educated & outspoken about it.

I have called people out, in person, about their breeding practices... and believe it or not, I'm friends & family with a few of these people, and I stopped them from producing perhaps hundreds more puppies by speaking up & giving them advice. Shame on me? W/e.
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2006, 05:30 PM
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that spelling is horrible...and they look like a BYB to me.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2006, 07:35 PM
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tempura tantrum tempura tantrum is offline
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Quote:
This is really sad when others have to put others down , just to make them selfs feel important.
Maybe this person is just starting out or something.
Did you ever hear the saying: treat others as you would want to be treated.
so all i have to say is shame on you!
In my opinion, the worst evil of all is that of complacency. Sit back and do nothing because you don't care. Because you don't want to rock the boat. Because you feel bad that you'll hurt someone's feelings.

I'll hurt someone's feelings any day, if it means that I might be saving the LIVES of dogs. (Or even *people*- how many times have you seen breaking news about a dog that maimed or killed a family member or young child? You can bet those animals didn't come from fantastic breeders).

This breeder doesn't know the first thing about her own breeds. She cannot even correctly spell "Keeshonden." Which is pretty rudimentary...I mean, doesn't almost EVERYONE know that the plural of octopus is "octopi?" Yet I doubt any of us are octopi breeders. If you're setting yourself up as an expert in some field (which you automatically do when you become a breeder- your clients WILL believe you know more than they do...and they should be right), you should at least be able to know the BASICS of your breed. Which include spelling it's name correctly.

Or maybe I'm just expecting to much in this day and age of half-a$$ing everything. Where speed, not quality is the measure of success. Of people who take absolutely no pride in educating themselves. Of a world that idolizes people like Paris Hilton, who actively glamorizes ignorance and stupidity, and encourages (by example), young girls to do the same.

Being *new* at something is NOT, I repeat NOT, an excuse for being uneducated or BAD at it. I am *new* at breeding Shibas. My bitch had her first litter last year, and I recognized the fact that I would be unable to undertake such an endeavor all on my own. So for one...I waited for over 7 years of learning about the breed before I bred my first girl. Secondly, my breeder STILL took care of nearly everything, while guiding and teaching me along the way. I can honestly say that I deserve no credit for Kimi's litter- other than that I raised Kimi herself. But I did *learn* a heck of a lot. And the result? 2 very happy pet-puppy owners, and one outstanding show-pup that is a champion in AKC, CKC, and UKC. A puppy that has already taken BOB over the top Shiba in the nation, and several group placements over top-ranked specials. With a temperament to die for, and outstanding health.

Whatever happened to taking pride in learning a craft? In being mentored by someone? In taking years to perfect something, and rising to the top slowly by your own hard work?

It's not like anyone here was born knowing the RIGHT way to do something. We all LEARNED it. When I was 13, I assumed (like many people, I'm sure), that the pet store was the only place to get a dog. But wanting to make sure I did right by my future puppy, I hit the library and started studying. The result? I ended up buying my first puppy from one of the top Shiba breeders in the nation. I ended up becoming a humane society volunteer. I ended up deciding I wanted a phD in animal behavior, and I'm now *slowly* working my way through the undergrad requirements. Good things take time and research to do well. Heck, even finding a decent BURGER takes a little bit of research. Just because McDonalds is ubiquitous, doesn't make it good.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2006, 07:53 PM
CamzKees CamzKees is offline
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Default Shame on me?

Are you kidding? Shame on me?

I'm not the one who is a back yard breeder!

Honey, I just call 'em like I see 'em. If someone can't even spell the name of the dog they've been breeding for over ten years...there's a problem

And I'm not bashing her because I like to make people feel bad. I know you don't know me, but the reason I said anything is that I know for a fact that she's a KNOWN back yard breeder, and an insult to the breed of dog I love most.

Maybe you should reasearch what a "back yard breeder" means...then research puppy mills...THEN you can tell me you don't like what I have to say.

Notice ALSO that I didn't say she was a bad person. I said that her breeding practices for dogs suck, and as far as I'm concerned that affects everyone on this board, and people have a right to know when someone is doing bad business, don't you think so?

If you really want a good idea of the KIND of business this lady runs, check out the "Anyone heard of TEK KENNELS" thread...

That's a puppy mill and back yard breeder at its worst. There is not excuse for ignorance when you're playing God with an animal's genetics.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2006, 08:06 PM
CamzKees CamzKees is offline
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Default I also wanted to add

Well, if it means anything, the eastern US keeshond rescue groups know exactly who she is because of her poor breeding practices. I know this also to be fact.
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