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  #11  
Old 08-20-2006, 05:20 AM
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MomOf7 MomOf7 is offline
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Prongs work if you know how to use them. I would hesitate getting a prong without a trainer to teach you. Slip lead should work just fine for you. Its a 4 mo old puppy.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2006, 10:19 AM
Herschel Herschel is offline
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Why hurt your dog with a choke or a prong collar?

Get a collar or harness with the buckle in the front so that if the dog pulls, it is immediately turned around.

http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?ID=29

By the way, I've noticed that using a retractable leash ruins any leash training that I do with my 5 month puppy.
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2006, 12:34 PM
silverpawz silverpawz is offline
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Quote:
Prongs work if you know how to use them. I would hesitate getting a prong without a trainer to teach you.
Very true. But using one is not rocket science. You fit the collar, hold the leash with about a foot of slack and go on your way. The collar does the rest for most dogs.

Keeping a little slack on the leash at all times is what some owners have trouble with, but if you're not popping or pulling the collar, you really can't go wrong as the dog will self correct if he hits the end, no need for actual 'corrections' on the part of the owner. In my experience novice owners can do more damage with a choke chain then with a prong by constantly keeping it tight and chokeing the dog. Seen it happen way too often.

I have used some of the more popular harnesses designed to flip the dog around and I have not been impressed with them. Far too easy for a dog to back out of one and then he's gone. For some dogs I'm sure they're magic, but for others they're simply dangerous due to the escape factor.

If you want a no-pull device and are dead set against using a prong, then I'd try a Good Dog collar, or a Canny Collar.
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel
Why hurt your dog with a choke or a prong collar?

Get a collar or harness with the buckle in the front so that if the dog pulls, it is immediately turned around.

http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?ID=29

By the way, I've noticed that using a retractable leash ruins any leash training that I do with my 5 month puppy.

A prong doesn't hurt the dog. At class I was hesitant about using it until the traner put it around my arm and gave me a good "correction" with it. It got my attention, but did it hurt? Nope. Was I left with any scratches or marks? Nope.

A choke chain, can hurt a dog. Collapsed trechea in small dogs is very common from the use of choke chains.
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  #15  
Old 08-20-2006, 03:42 PM
smoore smoore is offline
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Hi all, first post. I have a problem with my dogs pulling also and am trying to plan training to fix it. One is just an enthusiastic mutt who at 50# managed to pull my stepson flat on his face. Said stepson doesn't like to walk the dog anymore The other is a 25# norweigan elkhound who pulls on a regular leash/collar despite choking herself. It's like she doesn't even want to zig-zag and sniff, she's just straight down the sidewalk/path like a sled dog. The choking is very scary sounding.

Can she crush her own throat on a regular collar? Would a slip lead possibly be bad for her for training if she does have some sort of throat damage?

I fear the previous owners probably abused her with a choke chain as she gets the same choking/coughing problem sometimes just laying her head on the couch for petting.

I have a couple of the halti brand "gentle leaders" and while this does alleviate the pulling and choking, the dogs still keep them fully taut without having their heads pulled to the side. They also detest the things, I have to threaten them with "you'll have to stay home!" to get them to submit to the "gentle leader". I think I'll look into prong training but I'll have to ask the vet about the elkhound. I sure don't want to harm her.
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2006, 07:18 PM
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Tinaweena Tinaweena is offline
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Prongs sound perfect for your two. Please do look into it, but consult the vet about the eklhound first. Read up on prong training, I'm sure you'll find they are powersteering for your dogs.
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:06 AM
Sadie'smama Sadie'smama is offline
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I'm also trying to break Sadie (4 month old lab/border collie mix) to a leash. She has a stubborn little mind ! I was thinking of stopping at Feeders Supply today and picking up a harness and try that. I've been told that if you can master the leash/walking that other things come easier. Do you all think this is true?
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:12 AM
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mamasobuco mamasobuco is offline
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Gotta tell ya, I am a Dog Wisperer fan and we tried Cesar's back pack idea and it calmed our boys down. They are about 90% perfect. AND, they LOVE their back packs! Our walks are so much fun now. We stop in the middle to rest and their water and bowl are in their back packs.
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:18 AM
Sadie'smama Sadie'smama is offline
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Yes, yes, yes. I love the Dog Whisperer. My sister just got me watching him and I've been taping his episodes now everytime there on. I've learned a lot from him, just in how a dog thinks. It's all in the pack leader. I've been working with her and she does seem to be doing much better. She knows sit, come and she will fetch and bring it back to you (now getting the object out of her mouth for another fetch is another thing)

My main goal now is to teach her to walk on the leash without acting like I'm killing her and to teach her "down". When people come over she jumps on them and wants to lick (progress there, she used to bite). I'm trying to teach her to not do that. After a couple of minutes, she gets used to the new person and goes on about her business. Which right now is trying to dig a hold in the backyard to China.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:35 AM
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This is a small dog, right? I would NOT advise a prong collar. If this dog can't pull you out in front of a truck, there is no need. It is a controlling device and is used for situations when the dog is not trained. It will not train your dog though. The dog walks nicely to avoid discomfort or pain. Dogs learn better when they work for reward than they do to avoid an aversive.

Retractable leashes encourage pulling because they're taut. Dogs instinctively pull against pressure. So, when there's pressure or tension, the dog is going to pull against it. If this is a small dog (I don't know how small) a harness is the safest thing. You don't want to damage the trachea.

At home, in your livingroom, start teaching him "watch me." He needs to pay attention to you on cue. Hold a treat in front of his nose and draw it up to your face. The second he looks at you, give the treat. Do this at random times throughout the day, start adding the cue, "watch" or "watch me." Go outside, adding a tiny bit of distractions, then add more. Really get him to look at you on cue. Get it solid. This should be one of the very first lessons for a pup because without attention, he can't hear you giving him a command for something else. LOL. He's off in La La land, sniffing things, looking at birds, watching people. Keep working on that every day while you're getting him to walk nicely. At first, he'll only be able to look at you when there's nothing else much going on. But then, you can try it while outside with him sitting next to you, then while walking across your yard...little by little, adding distractions. Soon you'll be able to say, "watch me" while you're walking, every few steps. This will keep him attentive and waiting for your next instruction. It will really help him not to pull. He should, however get to have some time during a walk....lots of time to have fun and do how he wants, sniff things etc...within reason of course. No pulling allowed. LOL.

That said, I like Boston Banker's idea and whoever said to keep changing directions. That helps too. The dog wants to go forward in a bad way. Going forward is rewarding to the dog. Don't reward the dog for pulling. If you reinforce behavior you don't want, you're going to get it. Stop frequently and ask for a sit, change direction before the dog comes to the end of the leash, reward very, very often at first for the dog keeping a little slack in the leash. Most people only reward when the dog has walked for quite a distance nicely, but just when they're thinking about rewarding the dog, he begins to pull and they miss out on a chance to reinforce. If your dog takes one step nicely, pop him a tiny treat....keep walking...another 2 or 3 steps, another treat. Show him what you want. Frequent reinforcements are what the dog needs to go from the guessing stage of what you mean to the stage where he is seeing that a certain way of walking IS what is getting him the treat. Prevent the pulling from being reinforced by rewarding with going forward when there is tension in the leash. You can stop, make zig zag turns, reverse and go back the same way and retrace the same boring path he just took, same boring smells, sights. If the dog wants to go for a walk, go forward, he needs to be shown that only by keeping along side you (aprox) will he get to go forward. Reward often....every few steps for a while. As he gets onto it and is walking better for 10 steps, say....you can then space out the rewards.

Add a cue only after he starts getting it 80-90% of the time. Get the behavior first. When you start using a cue, choose one which you'll use all the time for loose leash walking. ie: "Let's go." "Heel" is a very precise position and that comes later. Don't try to get a formal heel until his loose leash walking is good.
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