Dingo, Coyote, and Wolf Hybrids? What is your opinion

Red_ACD_for_me · Aug 18, 2006

Another older thread got me thinking, who believes in owning one of these potentially dangerous hybrids and why? Yeah, I know ALL dogs descend from wolfs and even the smallest Chi supposedly does which I find hard to believe

I personally believe that the closet thing to owning a wolf is a purebred husky

such beautiful dogs. The closet thing to owning a dingo is having a red ACD which I own and I wonder just how much dingo is in them. The history of the ACD and how the breed was come to be was by mixing the Dingo, bull terrier, dalmation, kelpie, and smooth collie. Throw those all together and you get a hard working, compact, muscular, drivey as hell, very protective dog. I know people own wolf hybrids and some dingo hybrids but they are usually just a wolf/shepard, wolf/husky, or wolf/malamute cross. So I wonder what makes a hybrid more dangerous then owning dogs who descend from them? I would think it would be the fact that you are just taking a wolf/dingo out of the wild and mating it with a domesticated dog. In most states these dogs are illegal to own and some of the lucky ones end up in a wolf or wildlife sanctuary to live out there lives as WILD animals. Personally, I would never own a wolf hybrid because they are to close to the real thing and can be dangerous. But then again can I even say that I would never own a hybrid or dingo cross because I have a breed close to a dingo

What is your opinion of people owning hybrids?

SummerRiot · Aug 18, 2006

My bfs Dad had a Dingo/hound before. It was his best hunting dog he'd ever owned apparently. He was an avid hunter.

I would POSSIBLY own a wolf hybrid - but ONLY if it was a rescue. I would never go searching for a "breeder" (if you can call them that).

CamzKees · Aug 18, 2006

Nopers

Don't get me wrong- I think that wild dogs and wolves are beautiful. But, I am not ignorant of the fact that there is no way that I could accomadate for all the special requirements.

I bet the amount of exercise needed is pretty amazing- you'd have to have a "job" for that dog to reach it's potential- like sledding, pulling, something.

I'd also say that their nutritional requirements are more stringent then what a dog's is- wolves are mostly carnivores- dogs are omnivores. Dogs can survive (albeit not well) on crap walmart food and garbage IF they have to. I'm not sure a wild hybrid could.

Room to run- wolves have a "range" of up to thousands of miles, such as when they follow caribu heards to hunt and kill. I couldn't imagine how much room a wolf hybrid would need in order to be happy. I know Mals and Huskies are sort of the same way.

Life with the animal: some dogs are easier to live with then others. Dogs bred to be aggressive are giong to be more pushy and constantly fight for dominance. Wolf hybrids are probably much this same way. I bet you'd really have to constantly socialize a wolf hybrid in order to make it a decent pet.

Also, physically wolves and dogs are pretty different. Wolves have sharper teeth, and unlike dogs they actually have claws. It would be pretty hard to play fight with a wolf. Plus, wolves are far larger and smarter then dogs- I bet it would be really hard to control a wolf hybrid on a lead unless you were breed experienced and you knew what to expect at all turns.

Definately wouldn't suggest one for the first time dog owner. Just my two cents!

joce · Aug 18, 2006

I haven't met very many responcible owners or breeders of them. I'll never forget driving from my frineds one night and stopping for theses dogs. I get out and go to them adn its the guy down the streets wolf dogs

they aren't the pretty ones eitheir,(In their own way of course). He has his out all the time and I have even seen a couple at the pound. I think it takes a special person to have one nad what doens't a husky have that will cover it. I really think a lot of the wolf mixes are not anyway. I know someone with a mal who says its a wolf-there is no way.

ihartgonzo · Aug 18, 2006

I don't think anyone needs to own a wild animal, or cross thereof, as a pet. If they like wolves, awesome. Sponsor a wolf in a wildlife park.

I would not even compare Huskies to wolf hybrids. Most of the wolf hybrids that I've met (all except for 1, who was looow content) are painfully shy in any sort of new situation, and very defensive/fearful of new people. They don't mix into suburbia at ALL. We have plenty of domestic dogs overflowing shelters everywhere, so I don't see the point.

Angel Chicken · Aug 18, 2006

Red_ACD,

I saw this awsome documentary about dogs the other day. It basically talked of where our dog's decendants came from, and the wild dogs that are still out there today. I think you may like it. I'll see if I can download it and send it to you, if you pm me your e-mail addy.

As for the owning of a hybrid, I would. I wouldn't pay for one, but would definatly have one if it needed me. Camz was right on with that post. Their needs are different than domesticated dogs.

I knew a woman that owned not hybrids, but two Timber Wolves. She had them for a breeding program, but they were her pets as well. They did not like people at all, only she was allowed near them. She had to feed them a completely raw diet, as they were in a three acre run, and lived alot like wild wolves. Their needs are different, and that may be difficult for someone who would normally deal with domesticated dog to own one of these.

casablanca1 · Aug 18, 2006

When my sister was in law school, she did a paper on a case involving wolf hybrids that had killed a child, and the details were so horrific, and her research was so convincingly grim on the reality of what these animals are like, that I would never own one. Even dogs that appear to be closely linked to wolves and other wild canines, like huskies and ACDs, are a long way from being them.

So I wonder what makes a hybrid more dangerous then owning dogs who descend from them?

The wild animal makes it more dangerous. The very few animals that were slowly domesticated over centuries are extremely specialized animals. We don't fully appreciate that achievement or those animals - we accept without question that cows are placid, dogs are friendly, etc. We should take a moment, sometimes, to remember that all domesticated species have wild cousins, many who would willingly kill us if we got in their way. Some people think that the domestication of animals was one of the key achievements of the human race, and the catalyst for creating human civilization.

rhinecat · Aug 18, 2006

I would not be comfortable owning a wolf or dingo that wasn't captive-bred, both for safety and ethical reasons. I also wouldn't support people breeding large wild animals as pets. However, if my lifestyle allowed for it (more time and energy to exercise a dog, larger living space, etc.) then I would have no qualms about rescuing a dog that was part dingo, coyote, or wolf.

I would also feel about a hundred times safer with a well-socialized wild animal than I would with a poorly-bred, poorly-socialized domestic dog.

PixieSticksandTricks · Aug 18, 2006

I don't know if I would ever own a wolf hybrid or Coyote but maybe possibly a Dingo who knows really.

My brothers bestfriend Kyle had two dogs Dingo (that was the dogs name) a Alaskan Malamute and Bear a Wolf hybrid he got around yellowstone. Bear was always much friendlier then Dingo and was just more chill about everything. It was funny cause people were afraid of Bear and would approach Dingo and if they did that Dingo would greet them growling. Bear is the only wolf hybrid I have ever known.

I have seen people with Coyote hybrids online (different forums) and they all say they make fine pets. Shy and not really too into the whole people love thing but I guess they were good pets to them.

LabBreeder · Aug 18, 2006

I recently read a book by DVM Michael W Fox that says wolves are cousins to the dog. That waayyyyyyyy back in the day wolves and dogs split off from another animal and each started their own lineage.

I've also read that some wolves were kept for different reasons by certain tribes. EX: Instead of killing a runt they'd breed for smaller wolves...or keep the barkers and breed for barking guard wolves. Stuff like that. So eventually wolves were domesticated down into certain "breeds" persay (or reject wolves technically) and kept to do certain things around the teepee (LOL). I'd quote the book, but don't want to infringe on any copyright laws.

I believe it's out of How to Understand your Dog (Or Understanding Your Dog...something like that)

krisykris · Aug 18, 2006

My friend had a dingo mix and it was the absolute sweetest dog. She rescued it.

rhinecat · Aug 18, 2006

LabBreeder said:

Sorry, but that's untrue. Dogs and wolves are the same species, with dogs being a subspecies of grey wolf. I think the current taxonomy has grey wolves as Canis lupus and dogs as Canis lupus familiaris. So there was an ancestral species, which I do not know the name of, then wolves, then dogs were created by artificial selection of wolves.

LabBreeder · Aug 18, 2006

I choose to believe my information, seeing as how I don't know where you've gotten yours from, so here it is...and I quote.

"The modern breeds of domesticated dog belong to the family Canidae along with their wild cousins, the wolves, coyotes, jackals and foxes. They are all flesh-eaters, or carnivores, but unlike the other carnivores such as the cats, which mainly ambush their prey, they instead chase after adn run down their prey. Consequently members of the dog family are characteristically built for speed and endurance. Some species, such as the fox, are solitary hunters, while others, like the wolf, hunt in packs. The wolf type is therefore very sociable.
Dr. L. H. Colbert has traced the ancestry of the dog from fossil remains of various carnivores, going back as far as the transition from Eocene to the Oligocene ages, some 40,000,000 years ago. A small, civetlike carnivorous animal lived during this period which has been given the name MIACIS. Present-day civets are possibly his direct descendants. Later in the Oligocene, two species emerged from MIACES, one a bear-dog or wolverinelike animla from which the present-day bears are believed to have evolved. The other offshoot, known as CYNODICTIS, is thouth to be the grandfather of all the dog family.
CYNODICTIS apparently had partially retractile claws and therefore most probably lived in trees. From this, in the lower Miocene, arose two more evolutionary branches, one giving rise to the present-day hunting dogs of India and Africa. The other CYNODESMUS, which developed into large hyenalike animals, was destined to become extinct in North America. But during the upper Miocene the offshoot of CYNODESMUS evolved, TOMARCTUS, from which the wolf, dog and fox are thought to have evolved.
In spite of the common ancestry of present-day carnivorous mammals, the origin of the domesticated dog is clouded in the unrecorded history of primitive man. Our only recourse is to sift through archeological remains. Careful excavations hae shown that for at least the last 10,000 years man has had dogs as close companions. Examination of the skulls of the animals has revealed that they were indeed dogs and that the only wild animal with comparable dental characteristics is the wolf. Jackals, coyotes, and foxes have much less in common with the dog in terms of skeletal features, even though the jackal and coyote will interbreed with the domesticated dog. The consensus is, then, that the wolf is the closest cousin of the domesticated dog.
Some authorities contend that the dog is directly descended from the wolf, while others believe that the present-day dog is the descendant of wolf crossed with a close relative which was more doglike than wolflike in appearance. This "missing link" may be a dingo or basenjilike ancestor. But when we look at the worldwide distribution o fthe wolf and the regional variations in body size and coat color, it is not difficutl to imagine that thousands of years ago orphaned wolf cubs were raised by primitive man, who selected those with the most stable temerpament and other attributes desirable in an animal that guards the home or other domesticated livestock or assists its master on hunting expeditions.
The complex cycle of the evolution of dog breeds which parallels the evolution and spread of human cultures makes it difficult to go back in time and determine the origins of the many breed types. Mesopotamia, a region of great cultural evolution 2,000 years B.C., was probably the major source of domesticated dogs of various types that were gradually disseminated throughout Asia and Europe years later.

-Understanding Your DOG
Michael W Fox, DVM

Red_ACD_for_me · Aug 18, 2006

krisykris said:

I'm sure it was only dingo by speculation because I don't think a shelter would adopt out a dingo cross. Unless, she rescued it from a private person. Without seeing the actual parents of the dog then alls they could do is speculate.

4WheelVFR · Aug 18, 2006

LabBreeder said:

I choose to believe my information, seeing as how I don't know where you've gotten yours from, so here it is...and I quote.

"The modern breeds of domesticated dog belong to the family Canidae along with their wild cousins, the wolves, coyotes, jackals and foxes. They are all flesh-eaters, or carnivores, but unlike the other carnivores such as the cats, which mainly ambush their prey, they instead chase after adn run down their prey. Consequently members of the dog family are characteristically built for speed and endurance. Some species, such as the fox, are solitary hunters, while others, like the wolf, hunt in packs. The wolf type is therefore very sociable.
Dr. L. H. Colbert has traced the ancestry of the dog from fossil remains of various carnivores, going back as far as the transition from Eocene to the Oligocene ages, some 40,000,000 years ago. A small, civetlike carnivorous animal lived during this period which has been given the name MIACIS. Present-day civets are possibly his direct descendants. Later in the Oligocene, two species emerged from MIACES, one a bear-dog or wolverinelike animla from which the present-day bears are believed to have evolved. The other offshoot, known as CYNODICTIS, is thouth to be the grandfather of all the dog family.
CYNODICTIS apparently had partially retractile claws and therefore most probably lived in trees. From this, in the lower Miocene, arose two more evolutionary branches, one giving rise to the present-day hunting dogs of India and Africa. The other CYNODESMUS, which developed into large hyenalike animals, was destined to become extinct in North America. But during the upper Miocene the offshoot of CYNODESMUS evolved, TOMARCTUS, from which the wolf, dog and fox are thought to have evolved.
In spite of the common ancestry of present-day carnivorous mammals, the origin of the domesticated dog is clouded in the unrecorded history of primitive man. Our only recourse is to sift through archeological remains. Careful excavations hae shown that for at least the last 10,000 years man has had dogs as close companions. Examination of the skulls of the animals has revealed that they were indeed dogs and that the only wild animal with comparable dental characteristics is the wolf. Jackals, coyotes, and foxes have much less in common with the dog in terms of skeletal features, even though the jackal and coyote will interbreed with the domesticated dog. The consensus is, then, that the wolf is the closest cousin of the domesticated dog.
Some authorities contend that the dog is directly descended from the wolf, while others believe that the present-day dog is the descendant of wolf crossed with a close relative which was more doglike than wolflike in appearance. This "missing link" may be a dingo or basenjilike ancestor. But when we look at the worldwide distribution o fthe wolf and the regional variations in body size and coat color, it is not difficutl to imagine that thousands of years ago orphaned wolf cubs were raised by primitive man, who selected those with the most stable temerpament and other attributes desirable in an animal that guards the home or other domesticated livestock or assists its master on hunting expeditions.
The complex cycle of the evolution of dog breeds which parallels the evolution and spread of human cultures makes it difficult to go back in time and determine the origins of the many breed types. Mesopotamia, a region of great cultural evolution 2,000 years B.C., was probably the major source of domesticated dogs of various types that were gradually disseminated throughout Asia and Europe years later.

-Understanding Your DOG
Michael W Fox, DVM

Hmmmm, he sounds smart and has his own theory, but its just that, a theory. According to current Zoological taxonomy dogs and wolves are of the same species, with dogs being a subspecies. Thats not a theory, thats a zoological fact.

rhinecat · Aug 18, 2006

That's exactly what I said, and the species classification for dogs and wolves can be looked up anywhere, so I didn't really feel the need to cite sources; especially as it's something I knew, not looked up.

LabBreeder · Aug 18, 2006

If you know it obviously you got your information from some source. That means it was looked up at some point, otherwise it's just your opinion.

Since my guy stated many facts, I don't get where you come off with saying it's a nice theory. Sounds like you don't enjoy a little knowledgeable competition when it comes to where dogs originated.

rhinecat · Aug 18, 2006

LabBreeder said:

It's just how the taxonomy is arranged. I would have no idea where I first learned it, since I've been studying biology for so long. It's very basic knowledge.

I didn't say anything about it being a nice theory, anyway; you're thinking of another person who posted. However, if stating lots of facts makes something true, I can probably state a great many facts.

Anyway, Dr. Fox's theory is not, as you seem to have interpreted it, that wolves and dogs share a common ancestor but arose separately. He states that either things happened the way most people say they did--early humans artificially selected traits in wolves until the animals they had differed enough to be considered a subspecies, OR those wolves were bred with another type of wild canid and artificially selected for specific traits until they could be considered a subspecies. So far, genetic analyses indicate that dogs most likely were created by human selection from grey wolves.

Also, the last sentences in the excerpt you posted seem to indicate that Dr. Fox espouses exactly what I've been saying--that humans created dogs by selective breeding of grey wolves.

More information on the topic is available here:
http://www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.htm

Cassiepeia · Aug 18, 2006

I'd like to know which Dingo you're referring to here? Because as far as I'm aware it is illegal to export the Australian Dingo out of Australia (apart from anything else, they're a rare animal)...we even have strict rules about exporting them from state to state in our own country.
I'd like to know where all these people overseas get them.
Personally I think someone's just yanking your chain...they're either from illegal stock (in which case I'm disgusted by the whole thing), from dogs that were a dingo/domestic dog mix that no one admited to when they were taken out of Aussieland, it's a carolina dog that is actually the dingo part people talk about or (more likely) there is no dingo in them at all and they were told lies or are telling lies to everyone else about their dogs background.
Plenty of mutts look similar to dingoes...it wouldn't be hard to find one to flash around and make up stuff about.

Back on topic...I hate to see the Dingoes genes diluted by the introduction of domestic dogs (which has already happened to a large extent) so I'm dead against hybrids. I think most people just want the name and look, rather than the animal itself. Same with wolves and coyotes.

Cass.

rhinecat · Aug 18, 2006

Cassiepeia said:

My personal suspicion is that they (Australian dingos in the US) came from back in the 1960's and 70's, when animal export laws were nearly non-existant, zoos thought nothing of selling off excess stock to anyone with the cash or who ran a cheap roadside zoo, etc. There are very few, weakly-enforced animal ownership laws in most of the country, so I'm sure that people have and breed dingos and dingo hybrids that came from imported animals of decades ago. This is true of many reptile species, so I think it's at least plausible for dingos.

Off-topic: Your dog looks a LOT like my Adam!

Dingo, Coyote, and Wolf Hybrids? What is your opinion

Ruled by a RED boy!

Dog Show Addict

New Member

Active Member

and Fozzie B!

Angel Chicken

Guest

Happy

New Member

Athletic Labs. They Exist

LabBreeder

Guest

New Member

New Member

LabBreeder

Guest

Ruled by a RED boy!

Member

New Member

LabBreeder

Guest

New Member

Chihuahua Mum

New Member