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  #41  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:27 AM
gatethekeeper gatethekeeper is offline
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Oh yeah, J thanks for the last link, thats actually near me. Well its still a ways away but i can easily turn it into a day trip.
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  #42  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:55 AM
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LizzieCollie LizzieCollie is offline
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I really hope you can find a good quality puppy, AKC or not.

Now I know you don***8217;t want to hear this but we are all recommending an AKC responsible show breeder because you should really find a breeder who doesn***8217;t over breed, who health tests the dogs (hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, etc.) because what you are going to save buying from another breeder you will probably have to fork up double to deal with the health problems of the puppy.

Spend an extra 300-400 dollars on a good puppy from a good breeder and you will get a pup who if for some reason doesn***8217;t turn out 100% healthy you will be able to turn to the breeder for support. If you buy a 400 dollar pup from just anyone you can bet that if that pup ends up with HD or thyroid problems you wont even be able to find them. Good luck with your search!
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  #43  
Old 08-17-2006, 11:10 AM
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I wish you the best, Gate !! Just stay away from the internet. I shipped a pup, but knew the owner and she knew me and my breeding. Both of us were basketcases until the pup arrived !! It was a 2 hr. through flight and he didn't even mess his cage !
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  #44  
Old 08-17-2006, 11:49 AM
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Fran, I never said that I didn't think that pups should be socialized. It looks like they allow their bitches to live in private homes and raise the pups there till they are 7 weeks. So the amount of socialization would be dependent on who has the bitch and pups.

Mordy where do you see they "sell hundreds of puppies a year" ? I looked around and didn't see that anywhere.

To me that breeder had a lot of good traits that people around here are always saying is a requirement- titles, decent guarantees, temprament testing (argue as you may, but IPO titling has temprament testing as part of it). No one can guarantee that every dog will have a good temprament. At least these guys will take it back from you and give you another pup. How do we know that they then pawn off that dog on someone unsuspecting? Maybe they put them down. Maybe they foster them out to people who can deal with the temprament issues. Yes, they are running a business. But look at the testimonials from people who have been very happy with their dogs.

I think it's funny that so many people here can pick apart just about any breeder. They can do 50 things right, but if they miss on one point, they are a "bad breeder". Even Redye took a bunch of crap from people here because she was breeding a dog with bad elbows, yet she was supposed to be the model for all breeders. Maybe there are some perfect breeders out there, but if they are thousands of miles away and their pups are way beyond the budget of normal people, whats the point. If a breeder is THAT good, they aren't going to let just anyone off the street like one of us have a pup anyway.

As far as getting a shelter dog- that is even more of a crap shoot. Yes, you save a life. But those dogs are in there for some reason, either health or temprament issues, poorly socialized, and most likely not from a reputable breeder, who would take the dogs back before they were sheltered, especially the 2 pups that someone posted about.
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  #45  
Old 08-17-2006, 12:07 PM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL
As far as getting a shelter dog- that is even more of a crap shoot. Yes, you save a life. But those dogs are in there for some reason, either health or temprament issues, poorly socialized, and most likely not from a reputable breeder, who would take the dogs back before they were sheltered, especially the 2 pups that someone posted about.

Or because owners got tired of taking care of some "thing" or because the family started to have children and they didn't have time for the dog anymore or because people abandon animals when they move in hopes that someone picks up their repsonsibilty for them or because the owner was 80 years old and he passed on. Not ALL shelter dogs have health, temperment, socialization issues, and what decent shelter/rescue would adopt out a dog with said problems anyways?
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  #46  
Old 08-17-2006, 12:09 PM
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You are right Buddy's Parents, but the fact remains that if you are looking for particular traits in a dog, and you want a pup, you are better off finding a breeder vs going to the shelter.
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  #47  
Old 08-17-2006, 12:19 PM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL
You are right Buddy's Parents, but the fact remains that if you are looking for particular traits in a dog, and you want a pup, you are better off finding a breeder vs going to the shelter.

Yes, there is more of a chance of guarantee, but even then it's wishy washy. Who can tell by 8 weeks how a dog is going to be? I mean, truly. Yes, you can go by what the breeder has provided in the past, but there are no solid guarantees.

I love my Buddy and I would do it alllll over again, the thousands of dollars in vet bills (because he had parvo and got it FROM the shelter) and the problems we now have due to his compromised immunity. I would go through the horrid, biting, nipping, I'm the alpha dog stage just so that I have him to cuddle with every night. And he is almost a perfect dog. He is absolutely wonderful around children,he is well tempered, very intelligent and just a decent companion.

Now, I know that there are many others who have the same type of dog in a purebred bought from an experienced breeder, but why not give "shelter dogs" a chance too?

Sorry for hijacking!! I'll leave now...
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  #48  
Old 08-17-2006, 12:39 PM
J's crew J's crew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL
Fran, I never said that I didn't think that pups should be socialized. It looks like they allow their bitches to live in private homes and raise the pups there till they are 7 weeks. So the amount of socialization would be dependent on who has the bitch and pups.

Mordy where do you see they "sell hundreds of puppies a year" ? I looked around and didn't see that anywhere.

To me that breeder had a lot of good traits that people around here are always saying is a requirement- titles, decent guarantees, temprament testing (argue as you may, but IPO titling has temprament testing as part of it). No one can guarantee that every dog will have a good temprament. At least these guys will take it back from you and give you another pup. How do we know that they then pawn off that dog on someone unsuspecting? Maybe they put them down. Maybe they foster them out to people who can deal with the temprament issues. Yes, they are running a business. But look at the testimonials from people who have been very happy with their dogs.

I think it's funny that so many people here can pick apart just about any breeder. They can do 50 things right, but if they miss on one point, they are a "bad breeder". Even Redye took a bunch of crap from people here because she was breeding a dog with bad elbows, yet she was supposed to be the model for all breeders. Maybe there are some perfect breeders out there, but if they are thousands of miles away and their pups are way beyond the budget of normal people, whats the point. If a breeder is THAT good, they aren't going to let just anyone off the street like one of us have a pup anyway.

As far as getting a shelter dog- that is even more of a crap shoot. Yes, you save a life. But those dogs are in there for some reason, either health or temprament issues, poorly socialized, and most likely not from a reputable breeder, who would take the dogs back before they were sheltered, especially the 2 pups that someone posted about.

Kimbertal has a very well known reputation in the breeding world. Mordy most likely did not see anything on their site. If you are involved in breeding or any type of working dogs, you know who Kimbertal is. Do a search on them.

As for Redyre. I am one who does not agree with breeding a dog with DJD. However, her breeding is an open book. She does not hide anything when it comes to her dogs. After research if someone chooses to purchase from her you can bet they will be completely informed and know what they are getting into. She doesn't even have a litter right now. I mentioned her not because I feel she is a model breeder, but rather because she has the knowledge to point the OP in the right direction.
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  #49  
Old 08-17-2006, 12:56 PM
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DanL DanL is offline
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I did a search for Kimbertal. After 10 pages of links I found only 1 negative article from 11 years ago about a dog that died from a genetic defect. I saw another article about a fire that killed a bunch of their dogs.

I know nothing about rotties or dobies so I'm not trying to make any kind of intelligent comments about breeding them. I'm only going on the fact that their dogs are titled, temprament tested, and guaranteed. That is more than enough for most people.
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  #50  
Old 08-17-2006, 01:03 PM
gatethekeeper gatethekeeper is offline
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After looking at every link on there site, i am definitly thinking they are the breeder for me. They had one small problem. But there garuntees seem to take care of that now..


Quote:
Even well-known breeders sell puppies with genetic problems. Kimbertal Kennels in Kimberton, Chester County, is a nationally known breeder whose customers include Phillies pitchers Curt Schilling and Danny Jackson. Kimbertal customers don't complain of parvo or distemper or of unclean kennels. While there are satisfied customers, there have been numerous complaints about genetic problems.

John LePere of Swedesboro, Gloucester County, paid $350 for a purebred rottweiler puppy from Kimbertal that was so wild LePere gave him away after six months. LePere said he later learned the dog's parents were brother and sister -- inbreeding that experts say leads to genetic problems.

Kimbertal owner Robert G. Yarnall Jr. said the inbreeding was accidental.

No state or federal agency is charged with monitoring genetic problems. The state Department of Agriculture's Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement has responsibility to ensure that dogs are raised in good conditions. Agriculture officials and legislators say the agency has done little to stop problems.
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