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Old 08-12-2006, 01:36 PM
silverpawz silverpawz is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Is the dog food motivated? Stuffed Kong with a boat load of peanut butter. Keep the other dog far away and let the pup much on the Kong. Only works if the pup is either very hungry, or very food motivated. But when it works, it works wonders for getting the dog to calm down and relax. (would give the Kong BEFORE the other dog showed up.)

Body blocking. Assuming the dog is not food motivated enough to concentrate on the Kong. I would move in front of the dog, step into her space and make her back up a few steps. Gotta be sharp about this, quick steps, stand up straight, etc. Continue to body block untill the dog stops trying to go around you. Then ask for a sit. Reward. Wash, rinse, repeat.

This is a young dog and behavior like this needs to be stopped right away or else it can only get worse as the pup gets bigger.
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Old 08-12-2006, 03:13 PM
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OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
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My puppy went through something similar at 4 months. She has been at dog shows since she had her second set of shots and was used to seeing other dogs and pople. She and her litter were socialized WELL with people and other dogs.

At 4 months though, she went through this. She would bark and raise hackles etc. Although probably not as badly as the GSD puppy, it sounds like. She was fine with of course, my other dogs, and some friends dogs too, but being on lead around strange dogs was scary. I did not do much clicker work with it. I would take her to Petsmart, on a day when I thought only a few dogs would be there and walk around w/ treats. When I saw another dog I would strategically move around to be where she could glance at the other dog then I would duck behind an aisle taking her w/ me. If she wasnt barking I would treat her. This worked, to a degree, I didn't see a marked improvement right away, but I could tell she was going in the right direction.

I just kept working on that, but Im conviced she has been 'growing' out of it. She is 5 months now, and much better. as long as you don't stop taking them to class and socializing, I think that he will grow out of it. Tell her not to push him though.
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Old 08-12-2006, 05:42 PM
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x Liz x x Liz x is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sleaford, Lincolnshire
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My dog barks for ages at dogs when she see's them. When she was a puppy she was lovely to all dogs, & so I asked my friend Lisa if her dog was friendly, because I thought it would be nice for Holly to have a dog friend lol, & she said he was, but he attacked Holly, & made her bleed =/ she now dislikes most dogs & always barks at them. This was after a few monthes of running away and getting me to pick her up lol.
I'd make the dog look at me instead of the other dog so he finds it harder to bark [ i always find holly has a harder time barking if she isnt looking at the object which she's barking at in the first place.] then i'd introduce him to an older dominant dog on a different side of a fence or with something inbetween until his aressive behaviours dwindles & then introduce them properly.

probably the wrong thing to do though =/
I know it would work with Holly, but all dogs are different. :]
good luck.
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Old 08-12-2006, 05:58 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
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Ok, first of all bringing another dog out was too soon, IMO. Thats why I work from home, in the early stages of training. I would work on focus and the "watch me" command. Make the dog really hungry, dont feed him for a day, and I can almost gurantee he will focus on the food. Make him work for his food. Built up his focus THEN add dogs to the scenario. I wouldnt be concerned with the sits and downs right now. Strictly FOCUS. Now when the dog is ready to go out, nothing around him matters when you say watch me. You have the food, you are more important, ONLY if you manipulate the food drive.

I had that problem with Hondo. He decided to act a fool around other dogs, but when I say watch me, everythng else in the world disappeared. Thats how I did my dogs.
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:32 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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Location: CT
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I don't have a suggestion on what I'd do, but can I ask a Q?

Did you let him approach any dog and get up close and personal and what happened if you did? (I know not many want to use their dogs as guiena pigs on a dog like this, just curious) And I'd also be curious as to his actions offleash around another dog?
OK MElanie time to spill ! *vbg*
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Old 08-12-2006, 09:20 PM
IliamnasQuest IliamnasQuest is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,083

Some great responses here! Thanks!

Okay, so what I did .. *L* .. I told you that I had brought Trick in and she was in a down-stay. I left her there and walked over to the owner (talking to her was difficult across the room as her pup barked SO DARN LOUD! *L*). The pup ignored me, was still at the end of the leash barking.

My assessment of the situation is that this pup didn't have a clue as to how to act. He had some fear, possibly brought on by an experience at the boarding kennel (and possibly during a fear period). His reaction now was to lunge and bark and he was learning that not only would dogs go away from him, but that his Mom would pull back on the leash and be his support.

So I asked the owner to drop the leash and walk away. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone unless they have a very secure dog (like Trick). Trick is a pretty amazing girl - she is the one we use in the puppy classes to stop the overly rambunctious pups. She's dominant but in all the right ways. Not aggressive but she will use her body language to "explain" the proper behavior.

The owner looked at me and I said "Trick is okay. Drop the leash if you're comfortable." She let go of the leash and turned away and her pup immediately stopped barking and turned to look at her. It was actually kind of funny .. *L* .. he barked a time or two at Trick and then turned and followed his Mom. No barking, hackles down at this point. I had her just leave the leash loose.

She was amazed. But so much of fear aggression is fueled by the concept of the "pack support" behind the dog, and that's communicated directly to the dog by the leash. Without holding the leash, there was no longer that communication and the pup stopped because he no longer felt he had the back-up.

I told the owner to reward any "positive" behaviors the pup offered from this point out. She was to click and give him treats when he looked at her, or when he ignored Trick, or did a sit, etc.

Then I released Trick from her stay. She came over to us, the pup hackled up a bit and barked and she ignored him. She came to me and I gave her a treat, and the pup stopped barking because she didn't even look at him at that point. He came closer and was curious and she turned to look at him. He was cautious but we humans just stood back and let them interact. Trick went to him and sniffed him, he hackled a bit but she just ignored that for the most part. When he got a bit pushy, she shoved her neck over him and pushed him back.

Before too long they were wandering around the room, going from person to person to get a treat. So I went out and got another dog - my young chow who is 21 months old and FULL of energy. She was also in heat and wearing "undies" .. *L* .. I expected that this pup was too young to react, but if he did I would have taken her out right away. As I was going in and out the door, I had the woman pick up the leash so that the pup wouldn't sneak out. When I came back in with Khana, he again lunged and barked. She dropped the leash and he stopped.

I turned Khana loose and she raced over to him and he ducked away from her in surprise. She is SO friendly and kept running past him and finally enticed him into a game of chase and play. He was hesitant and almost didn't know how to play, it seemed. Khana ran circles around him.

Soon after that another person arrived for the next class, with a young Airedale. Again, when the GSD pup's owner picked up the leash, he started barking but it wasn't as nearly as frenzied and she was able to back up and have him follow her so that she could reward him. He definitely was showing an improvement already. Within a short time we were able to turn him loose again with the Airedale too (and Trick and Khana still in the room). The four dogs wandered around and interacted peacefully.

I've found that most of the time, with young dogs, they just need proper interaction to understand how to behave. We don't know what happened to make him act fearful, but a dog like Trick is invaluable when it comes to helping pups like this. Trick is so solid, so reliable that we can turn her out with a fearful pup and she will not react badly if the pup acts stupid (lunges and snaps, etc.). When the pup realizes that there isn't a problem and relaxes, then it's time to up the criteria a bit by adding a dog with a higher energy level. Next week we are meeting again, and I'll bring a couple of other dogs so there are some new ones there.

And the woman's assignment was to find a safe playmate for her puppy, and to continue to reinforce the "good" behaviors. A good part of the whole procedure is showing the owner that they have a normal puppy with some slight fear issues, but who is capable of interacting without a problem. NOW is the time to work with this, and I'm really glad that she didn't wait until this pup was a year old and completely out of control.

I am a strong advocate of early socialization - early as in before they ever leave the breeder. And I encourage everyone to go to puppy classes and to socialize throughout the dog's life. There are some out there who say "my dog never needs to meet another dog!" and I strongly disagree with that because meetings between dogs DO happen. It's our responsibility to provide the dog with the tools in how to understand dog language and proper behavior, and that's done by socialization during that early developmental time and continuing on from there. Training classes are so important and I get mine out at the age of 8-9 weeks (yep, that young!) and keep going to various classes. This is why Trick is as solid as she is (that and good breeding). This is why I have chows that can be taken into a mix of dogs and turned loose, with no fear that they'll start anything with anyone.

I expect this GSD pup will be just fine. The desensitization that so many mentioned is another option if there isn't a dog like Trick around. But I really recommend getting the dog off-leash even if you have to put up an exercise pen to separate the dogs. It makes a huge difference to most dogs when the leash pressure goes away. I've worked with many "aggressive" dogs (almost always fear aggression) and we would put the dogs behind an ex-pen and then reinforce for all non-aggressive behavior. Nearly all of these dogs were able to integrate into a normal class situation after going through these sessions.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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Old 08-13-2006, 12:27 PM
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tinksmama tinksmama is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 268

This whole on/off leash thing is a big??? for me right now, Tink is a tiny 5 months, same issues, yesterday she ran over to the neighbors with no apparent fear or aggression to check out their huge aggressive dog who was barking wildly.... I panicked, ran over and grabbed her leash to get her away from him, completely undoing everything I'm trying for, and THEN she started growling with hackles up and i had to drag her away....
What else could i have done at that moment? I already know it's my fault for having her loose anyway....
how do I accomplish an off leash meetup for her?
Proud puppy mama, learning something new every day! Tinks page...
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Old 08-14-2006, 03:16 PM
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oc_spirit oc_spirit is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Woohoo I was right!!! lol Glad you had success with this!

"When the rain pours down from the heavens, take my hand and spin me around and we shall dance through the barn at midnight until the moon pokes through the clouds once more and the stars continue our dances in the skies"
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