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  #31  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:08 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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I have seen waaay too many people with unaltered females, who have been impregnated multiple times do to "accidents". I think that is crap. Either you spay/neuter or you watch your dog 24/7. If you don't do either of these things, you are attributing to over-population, period.

I think it's kind of unpractical to say that only people who are super-irresponsible will allow their unaltered dogs to breed... when my Mom was younger, they had a Chihuahua bitch who was very young and going through a silent heat very pre-maturely. This was in the 70's, when spaying & neutering was not a common practice. During a short potty break in the backyard (which, I'm sure all of us allow our pups outside for a while) the nieghbors Lab jumped the fence and bred her, somehow, and they had no idea until it was too late. She died. Because most people live within close proximity of other people's dogs, especially in the suburbs, and have yards that they allow their dogs to roam often, it is not safe to let an unaltered dog outside alone. For instance, my neighbors had a Doberman girl who was not spayed, and she would often dig to get into my backyard when Gonzo was outside because they loved each other (we have a doggy door, so Gonzo does go outside for short periods alone). If he wasn't neutered, that could've meant an unplanned pregnancy easily!

I also think it's pointless, and stressful, to put a dog through the urge to breed if you are not a responsible breeder. Having bunnies really opened my mind up to this! My two boys hated other bunnies, were horrible indoors with marking, and would literally jump the bones of every blanket/stuffed animal/leg in sight!! After they were neutered, allll of these behaviors went away and they were calm & sweet for the rest of their lives. And so much happier! I've experienced the same affect after spaying & neutering dogs AND cats. We had a Himalayan female who, before she was spayed, would literally sit at the door all day wanting to go outside so she could breed! After spaying her, she was a totally content & happy cat. I have only seen the good affects of spaying & neutering. I have also seen unaltered dogs go absolutely ape-shvt! Like, a really intelligent lady brought her in-heat BC to Flyball practice 3 weeks in a row... all of the males on the team are neutered, except for one show/working Dobie. The neutered males could care less about her. The Dobie could not even do recalls, and was a complete wreck the whole time! Like, foaming at the mouth, acting erratic, barking, trying to hump my dog ... it is not pretty.

But honestly, if you consider yourself responsible enough to watch your dog at all times, never allow it in a situation where ANY strange dog could come in contact with them without supervision, and you're happy dealing with the marking & neurotic behaviors of unaltered dogs - that is awesome! However, NO ONE is perfect and one moment of laziness and just letting your unaltered dog into the backyard for a few minutes alone can easily cause an "oops" pregnancy.
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  #32  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:15 PM
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PWCorgi PWCorgi is offline
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I think that all "pet" dogs should be s/n just to be safe. Why take the chance of a male running away or a female getting pregnant?

Izzy and Frodo were s/n 3 days after their 6 month birthday. I wouldn't say it was normal circumstances though, being littermates and everything. I was a nervous wreck until it was done, worrying about a silent heat and what the incest puppies would look like, lol. If Frodo would even show interest in her rear end I would freak out.

It has been 3 weeks and I already see a difference in Frodo. He seems much more cooperative and willing, although I don't know if that is related to him being neutered or not.
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:21 PM
gaddylovesdogs gaddylovesdogs is offline
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Unless you're an extremely responsible breeder, spay and neuter.
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  #34  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:26 PM
AnimalLoverCatRescuer AnimalLoverCatRescuer is offline
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I do find it odd that no one here mentioned the risks of cancer and Pyometra that they are giving their dogs when they decide to not spay or neuter. I am sure there are some rare risks with anesthesia to do the procedure but it is such a routine thing most vets could probably do with their eyes shut. When the risk of cancer is at hand as a result of not doing it, I will have every animal altered that I ever own. I couldn't imagine putting my animals at that risk.
  #35  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:44 PM
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Red_ACD_for_me Red_ACD_for_me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimalLoverCatRescuer
I do find it odd that no one here mentioned the risks of cancer and Pyometra that they are giving their dogs when they decide to not spay or neuter. I am sure there are some rare risks with anesthesia to do the procedure but it is such a routine thing most vets could probably do with their eyes shut. When the risk of cancer is at hand as a result of not doing it, I will have every animal altered that I ever own. I couldn't imagine putting my animals at that risk.
I did as well as Elegy ! {QUOTE}"Also, just because your dog isn't around males that can get her pregnant, doesn't mean, like Elegy, said that she is safe from pyometra or mammory cancer. I would get her spayed before anything like that can happen to her"__________________

Unfortunately, it doesn't change people's minds though .
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  #36  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:47 PM
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LizzieCollie LizzieCollie is offline
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I believe a great deal of people have mentioned those risks. I am still fairly new at all this, I have always had females and none ever got cervical/breast cancer or pyo so i didnt even know what it was until recently
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  #37  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:51 PM
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colliewog colliewog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzieCollie
Im still debating the whole spay or not spay thing. I dont want to spay her as a pup, I would like to wait till a first maybe second heat so she has a chance to mature. I'd have to check prices though, i have NO idea how much a spay procedure costs here, or anywhere else, the few dogs ive owned have never been altered.

BUT since Lizzie is my dog and my dog only Im at a loss right now
For my own dogs, I spay bitches once their breeding "time" is over and the males are dependent upon their attitude. For pets, they are altered around 18 mos to allow for proper growth and development (physical and mental). This is what I recommend to my puppy buyers *and it's in their contract not to do it before 10 mos of age, male or female*.

I do recommend that a bitch that is not going to be bred be spayed due to the risk of pyometra. There is a much higher percentage of intact bitches that develop that in relation it breast cancer. (I'm going to jinx myself here, but in my family's 40 yrs of breeding Collies and keeping intact bitches, we've never had one with breast cancer, but have had two with pyo).


FWIW - Collies aren't a muscular breed in the sense of Pit Bull muscle, but if they are allowed to mature and get proper exercise, they can get good muscle tone (my dogs have the thighs of greyhounds!)
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  #38  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:56 PM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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mach, what experience exactly do you have with working dogs, training, and showing a dog to say that their drive diminishes? can you explain that to the multitude of people who show their dogs?

or why at least 50% if not more, of the top dogs in many breeds (including my own) in both agility and obedience - are neutered and spayed?
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  #39  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:56 PM
AnimalLoverCatRescuer AnimalLoverCatRescuer is offline
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wow I must be tired...sorry I must have missed it. I try to read everything before I post something...sorry bout that, I will blame it on lack of sleep
  #40  
Old 07-27-2006, 12:33 AM
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LizzieCollie LizzieCollie is offline
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lol, im with you on that one, im going to bed soon to catch some ZZ's but its dreadfully hot here and the AC broke
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