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  #31  
Old 07-28-2006, 10:50 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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I've never met a shepherd like that Some I've met seem very cocky, but they're very loyal to their owner at least. lol
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Here's a site that's been posted before
Breed Types and Related Families
good comparision pictures.

And I agree with Renee... I will never buy the going american show bred GSD. I will rescue from a shelter/pound/rescue or I'll find a different type breeder
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  #32  
Old 07-28-2006, 11:05 AM
Serena Serena is offline
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If to you hardness means a confident dog that does not care about corrections then one would question why you consider your dog hard if he will challenge someone else who gives him a correction.

If being hard means not caring about corrections then your dog should brush off the correction regardless of who it comes from.

When I see a GSD challenge someone it does not know or respect I don't consider that an automatic sign the dog is hard...I consider it typical GSD behavior and proof that the breed has no interest working with and obeying someone that has not proven themselves worthy of their respect.

A dog that has issues with being touched, cuddled, or handled does not have good nerves.

As far as attitude I have been in GSD's for quite some time now, never have I used the word "prissy" to describe them.

GSD's are anything but prissy, an adult GSD should have a certain aloofness towards them and it is acceptable for them to demonstrate reserve towards strangers but they should never show avoidance in any situation.

There is a huge difference between an aloof dog and a prissy dog.
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  #33  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:29 PM
whatszmatter
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Quote:
A dog that has issues with being touched, cuddled, or handled does not have good nerves.
Being touched or handled is far different than being cuddled. Dogs should accept that, but rolling on their backs and having a strangers face shoved in theirs gushing all over them, well, I don't agree with them having to accpet that.

WIth an older female I got, it took me almost a year to get to that point with her. Whenever I would do it, she would immediatly push me away with her front legs, or stand up instantly. If you're a stranger, forget about it.

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There is a huge difference between an aloof dog and a prissy dog.
No need to get into a game of semantics, a dog that comes out onto the field head held high, ignoring others and prancing with an attitude like they own the place could be viewed as prissy by some.

There's plenty of aloof GSD's that don't have attitude
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  #34  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:19 PM
Serena Serena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatszmatter
Being touched or handled is far different than being cuddled. Dogs should accept that, but rolling on their backs and having a strangers face shoved in theirs gushing all over them, well, I don't agree with them having to accpet that.

WIth an older female I got, it took me almost a year to get to that point with her. Whenever I would do it, she would immediatly push me away with her front legs, or stand up instantly. If you're a stranger, forget about it.
I disagree that a dog accepting being cuddled is different than them accepting being touched or handled.

Different people respond to dogs in different ways...some people are shy and take a while to muster the courage up to touch the dog and when they do it comes in awkwards pats on the head..while others dive right in wanting to be immediate friends with the animal and throw their arms around it hugging the animal.

A well trained and socialized dog with good nerves should accept and tolerate any type of handling that the owner tells it is acceptable or permissable.

I still don't like the word "prissy" in reference to GSD's. Prissy implies the dog does not want anything to do with anyone not part of the dogs pack and will avoid them.

A GSD showing avoidance to a situation is showing improper temperament.

Reservedness/aloofness and prissyness/avoidance are very different things.

Edited to add: Unfortunately because there are some people out there who don't know how to handle dogs its best if your dog is able to "keep his cool" no matter the situation.

Between doing therapy work and living in a community where proper doggie handling etiquette is not routinely practiced I know there have been many occasions where if my dogs responded poorly to suddenly being grabbed or hugged it could have lead to a very bad situation.

You do what you can to teach people the proper way to approach your dog but you will always come across those people who do not listen or are not capable of understanding and in this case it helps to have a dog that does not react poorly to what can be potentially stressful situations.

Last edited by Serena; 07-28-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:56 PM
whatszmatter
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I agree they should accept it, but many don't necesarily like it

and prissy---aloof is still just semantics

I can picture prissy in my head, and we have a 5 month old female imported from belgium that fits that bill right now. She has mature features physically, doesn't look puppyish at all, and when she comes out on the field, she looks prissy, as pointed out by a few of our helpers, one of which is a rare american helper that is invited over to kennels in Germany and Belgium to work and train dogs. Her head is high, and she could care less about anyone else. She's there to do one thing, and when she wins she "prances" in front of the crowd, and past every dog in the kennel, in a kind of nah,nah,nah, look what i got type attitude--prissy---to me anyway. She has zero avoidance issues with loud noises, other animals, people, . When she grows up a bit, I think we're going to have a heck of dog on our hands.

I agree. Avoidance issues aren't good, especially for a GSD, how can you work when all you want to do is avoid?? but I'm losing what i'm even talking about, I can't even remember who's dog we're talking about. Oh well
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  #36  
Old 07-28-2006, 02:17 PM
Serena Serena is offline
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I can certainly agree with some dogs not liking being touched.

My first GSD would accept and tolerate being handled but you should see the look on her face sometimes. I swear if she could talk she would say, "Oh great another bozo invading my personal space!".

Maybe to some the terms prissy-aloof are just semantics. Different temperament discriptions to me but hey to each their own on that. I would never use the term "prissy" when talking about a GSD.
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  #37  
Old 07-28-2006, 07:57 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I can "see" where "whatz" is coming from using the word "prissy",, I've seen "prissy" GSD's as she describes them, but like Serena I don't use the word prissy (even tho I can't really think of another right now! LOL) to describe their "look at me I am ALL THAT" attitude.

I've been lucky to have had some really sound/bomb proof dogs in my life, and yes you get that occasional bozo come charging up to your dog and think they are going to respond likewise, (I"M SO HAPPY TO MEET YOU TO!) and when it doesn't happen, (the aloofness here), they wonder why? Well GEE, he isnt' a golden retriever, he could honestly care less about you, don't take it personally, and he will tolerate the hugging thing, but that's just "not" what a GSd is with people not in his immediate circle.

ok done rambling
diane
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  #38  
Old 07-28-2006, 10:51 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Just because a dog does not prefer to be touched does NOT mean he has bad nerves. A dog with bad nerves is fearful and unpredictable, Caza is the exact opposite. You can touch him (to a point) but there is NO NEED for ANYONE to touch him. And if you try to hug him he will not be happy, he will probably grumble (not exactly a growl) like "mom get this freak away from me" and that is where I step in as pack leader and fix the issue. He is always under control but just because he doesnt like being touched or cuddled does NOT mean he has bad nerves.


Caza doesnt care if I correct him but if someone else tries to "overpower" him he will challenge the "threat". He says, "and who the hell are you to *try* to punish me".
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  #39  
Old 08-01-2006, 12:34 PM
Serena Serena is offline
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When you say, "There is no reason for anyone to touch him" that really raises my eyebrow.

Socialization is so important in this breed, GSD's NEED to be exposed to a million places, people, and things to be well rounded and so they can at least learn to be tolerant of situations that they would otherwise find distasteful.

A GSD can prefer NOT to be touched all they want, as Jynx said they are NOT Golden Retrievers and should not be expected to act like one. However your dogs response to a situation that he is not particularly fond of (like being touched) does speak a lot about his nerves, training, and socialization.

Should he try to cover everyone that touches him in kisses? Of course not that is incorrect breed temperament however he should not sit there growling as he is being handled either.

I can remember another thread where you are telling everyone how your dogs work for you to avoid corrections.

The whole tone was "My dogs will do anything I tell them to because they know better than to dare not listen to me"...In the same thread you also say over and over again that your dog is a working dog and not the type of dog you pet or you would never force him to be hugged in a crowded room.

So your dogs "work" for you and you have no problems showing them a "real correction" if they need it but you are opposed to socializing them with neutral friendly people? That really concerns me.

Its almost like you want your GSDs to present this "bad a**" image of the breed and make them sound unapproachable.

The breed should be reserved, it should be aloof with strangers, but it should not be unapproachable, especially in situations that you tell the dog is acceptable.
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  #40  
Old 08-01-2006, 01:24 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Quote:
When you say, "There is no reason for anyone to touch him" that really raises my eyebrow.
There is no need for a person to pet any dog.

Quote:
Socialization is so important in this breed, GSD's NEED to be exposed to a million places, people, and things to be well rounded and so they can at least learn to be tolerant of situations that they would otherwise find distasteful.
When I got him at 7 months I did socialize him, but that did not include people grouping him, not necessary.

Quote:
A GSD can prefer NOT to be touched all they want, as Jynx said they are NOT Golden Retrievers and should not be expected to act like one. However your dogs response to a situation that he is not particularly fond of (like being touched) does speak a lot about his nerves, training, and socialization.
LOL, it has nothing to do with nerves or training or socialization. It has to do with him. I RESPECT my dogs, which I cant say alot of people still do. I will NEVER force him to accept being hugged, and he does get corrected for displaying that behavior, but I will not try to change that. That is how people get bit, the owners or anyone does not respect the dog. They continue to do something that the dog does not like, and they get hurt.
Should he try to cover everyone that touches him in kisses? Of course not that is incorrect breed temperament however he should not sit there growling as he is being handled either.

Quote:
I can remember another thread where you are telling everyone how your dogs work for you to avoid corrections.

The whole tone was "My dogs will do anything I tell them to because they know better than to dare not listen to me"...In the same thread you also say over and over again that your dog is a working dog and not the type of dog you pet or you would never force him to be hugged in a crowded room.
No, you took thingd from two seperate post. The first one was referring to agressive behavior towards me, and I said he wouldnt dare, and he knows the consequence, for that behavior. And the other thread I was referring to corrections in training where I said my dogs get corrected for CHOOSING not to do something. Get your facts straight next time, .

Quote:
So your dogs "work" for you and you have no problems showing them a "real correction" if they need it but you are opposed to socializing them with neutral friendly people? That really concerns me.
Key word: NUETRAL. IF a person is nuetral they do not pet a dog. Find a different word, . Caza is fine with people, but again no one needs to touch him or any dog. I worked on NEUTRALIZING him to people, the environment and other elements.

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Its almost like you want your GSDs to present this "bad a**" image of the breed and make them sound unapproachable.
LOL, I'm a firm believer of every dog is an individual and you will rarely see me breed discriminate.

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The breed should be reserved, it should be aloof with strangers, but it should not be unapproachable, especially in situations that you tell the dog is acceptable.
He is approachable. You can stand two inches from him and he will not even look at you.

Why am I trying to explain myself to you in the first place.
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