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  #11  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:28 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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As much as I love the GSD, I really don't see ever buying one of the modern ones. If I ever do anything other than rescue from a shelter, it will be finding an old farmer who has raised GSDs for himself and his farm . . .
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:35 PM
Melissa_W Melissa_W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il
This dog http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/2057.html looks like he was built VERY similarly to Bimmer - and Purdue, the first GSD I ever had, who was farm-bred.
I like the look of that one much better.
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2006, 06:29 PM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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just a comment - if its just american GSD's and its all the AKC"s fault, then why do euro GSD's look like that too?
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2006, 06:35 PM
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Thank you to everyone who has replied. This is such a pleasant board; I post on a few horse boards as well, and sensitive issues tend to cause major blow-ups! I appreciate all the good-natured replies.

I was really surprised by the hip dysplasia site DanL posted. The top two didn't shock me, of course, but there were some pretty high up that I didn't expect, and some large breeds down near the bottom. I certainly thought GSD would be in the top five or so.

The pictures certainly are interesting. Along with my friend's dog, the horse farm I used to work at had German Shepherds. They looked a lot like the dogs from the 30's and 40's. It's amazing how quickly we can alter a breed.
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim
just a comment - if its just american GSD's and its all the AKC"s fault, then why do euro GSD's look like that too?
German show still went a different direction that america, The americans went with extreme shoulder and rear angulation with exaggerated toplines, and weak and loose ligaments to get a "pretty" gait, and the German shows went with a more banana backed spine to get a longer stride. The German look off, but they are much stronger than any american bred gsd. Good american dogs are very few and far between. Read some of the links, they explain the dif between am, and german pretty well.

working line tend to look like the older dogs in conformation, although, now they're accused of not taking conformation into account when breeding. To me its a no brainer, but the show judges and what wins seems to change the breed more than "real" conformation.
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2006, 07:48 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I've had GSD's, "forever", I have/had, american show lines, ddr lines and czech lines, the later two being what I prefer.

Sorry to say, the Germans have as many screwed up dogs as the american show lines. The extreme angulation on alot of the american show line dogs, is not something that I like, but as with most "show" dogs, breeders will breed what judges "put up". So you have a vicious little circle going, if your showing your dog, you'll first look for judges who like the "type" of dog you have, IF judges are putting up extreme dogs, breeders/show people, are going to show those "types" of dogs under those judges. If they tend to pick a more "square" dog, well those "extreme" dogs aren't going to be shown under them.

There is also a HUGE misconception about overly angulated GSD's as well, again, I am not a fan of it, and neither are alot of Joe T. Public's, BUT that does not mean the dog has bad hips. A big "myth". An extreme dog could have excellent hips and your "squarer" dog could be dysplastic. In fact, GSD's "need" some angulation for rear suspension. To "square" of a dog, is not going to be able to propell as well as a dog with some angulation.

I like my dogs with moderate, "proper" (in my eyes) angulation. I don't like roached backs, I like proportioned dogs.

Temperament is pretty high on my list and unfortunately that's another thing that has gotten pretty screwed up by not only the americans but other countries as well.

I could ramble all day about gsd's, but I won't *vbg*diane
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:29 PM
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Shannerson Shannerson is offline
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I am a fan of the GSD, though have never owned one. I would like to some day but when I go as a viewer to dog shows I just cringe at the breed type I see. It is painful to see such extreme angulation and narrow hips. I cannot see how a dog like that can do a full days work. I think I will have to do some major scouting to find a breeder whom I agree with. It really is too bad.
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:11 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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shannerson, you don't necessarily have to go with what you see at shows, and you shouldn't have to do major scouting to find a good gsd breeder.

There are soooooo many GSD breeders out there, the ones you see at akc shows, are for the most part american lined dogs. Look at DDR dogs, (my favorite), which are old east german working lines. I find them to be pretty easy dogs to live /work with , (tho others may not agree), you won't see the extreme angulation you see at akc shows, but again they aren't american lined show dogs either.

Good GSD's are out there, and it's not to difficult to find what you want and a good breeder as well.
diane
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2006, 10:04 PM
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I love the looks of those GSD's back in the 30's and 40's. There is a GSD at work who has what I think to be very nice conformation. He's more square than many dogs I see, but still angled enough to have a tremendous stride. Very sturdy looking too, not "fishy" like most others I deal with.

There is almost no comparison to the GSD of 1900 and the GSD of 2005 besides the ear carriage...
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2006, 10:07 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
I've had GSD's, "forever", I have/had, american show lines, ddr lines and czech lines, the later two being what I prefer.

Sorry to say, the Germans have as many screwed up dogs as the american show lines. The extreme angulation on alot of the american show line dogs, is not something that I like, but as with most "show" dogs, breeders will breed what judges "put up". So you have a vicious little circle going, if your showing your dog, you'll first look for judges who like the "type" of dog you have, IF judges are putting up extreme dogs, breeders/show people, are going to show those "types" of dogs under those judges. If they tend to pick a more "square" dog, well those "extreme" dogs aren't going to be shown under them.

There is also a HUGE misconception about overly angulated GSD's as well, again, I am not a fan of it, and neither are alot of Joe T. Public's, BUT that does not mean the dog has bad hips. A big "myth". An extreme dog could have excellent hips and your "squarer" dog could be dysplastic. In fact, GSD's "need" some angulation for rear suspension. To "square" of a dog, is not going to be able to propell as well as a dog with some angulation.

I like my dogs with moderate, "proper" (in my eyes) angulation. I don't like roached backs, I like proportioned dogs.

Temperament is pretty high on my list and unfortunately that's another thing that has gotten pretty screwed up by not only the americans but other countries as well.

I could ramble all day about gsd's, but I won't *vbg*diane
A GSD does have a SLIGHT angulation in the rear which was created for their working ability, HOWEVER there is no need for a ver angulated rear, such as those in the showring.
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