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  #41  
Old 07-10-2006, 08:26 AM
moe moe is offline
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titles dont play a big part in my opinion of a dog, reason for this here in the UK we are ONLY this year able to make a dog in my breed up to CH as CC's have only this year been on offer within my breed working titles are also not on offer although I beleive the breed club is trying to make it possible in the future, there are many dogs that could in real terms be CH's but due to red tape its not possible for them to become it yet, maybe in the future once CC's have been on offer for some time and CH's become the norm, I will have a different view, until then I will continue looking at the actual dogs in question not their titles, if they have got ALL the health clearances, if the temperment is correct for the breed, if they show well, and if they also work well, if they have produced well in the past etc, these are at the moment my concern.

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  #42  
Old 07-10-2006, 11:25 AM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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you all seem to have a comprehension problem, or seem to be unable to actuallY READ what people have said.

wolfsoul, not having a canadian CH doesn't excuse you from having no titles whatsoever, including performance ones.

the CGC/CGN is NOT a title - it is a certification. the AKC/CKC are clear on this.
The HIC is exactly that - a herding instinct certification.

Just being able to put it behind the name does not mean it's a title. TDI stuff is also not a title, it is a certification.

GSDlover, again, you haven't read anything. Is wolfsoul doing these things with her dog that prevent her from titling her before breeding?

the MAJORITY OF DOGS in north america are doing NOTHING of the sort that would prevent them from being titled before reproducing.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2006, 11:39 AM
whatszmatter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
Thanks Erica. I'm glad somebody


This is Visa's first litter. HIC and CGN ARE titles. Anything that is placed before/after a name is a title.
I don't really want to get into this too much, BUT, HIC and CGN are most defineatly NOT nor ever will be considered TITLES. They are certificates, nothing more. I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone that has gottent these certificates, but to say they PROVE anything about the breedability of your dog or that they have titles is completely bogus.

and HIC is nothing more than a dog showing interest in livestock, there is NO working, there is not intensity needed to be shown, there is nothing but interest that needs to be shown, that's it nothing more. Therefore it is not much of a test and will never be considered a title.

a CGC/CGN is also just a certificate. It is fun for people to do and shows that you do something besides watch your dog eat and sleep. Again, nothing is being tested in any real sort of way. Small temperment tests with bicycles and people, but but there are no real tests being done, the dogs intensity to herd, to work all day, etc are not tested any in sort of way whatsoever.

To call these two very basic introductory fun things for people to do with their dogs a title is a slap in the face to everyone that has put in the time and dedication to earn a title with their dog.

your dog may or may not be able to work, i don't know i've never seen it, but please do not confuse these certificates with actual titles, they are thousands of miles apart.
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2006, 12:12 PM
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wolfsoul wolfsoul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim
wolfsoul, not having a canadian CH doesn't excuse you from having no titles whatsoever, including performance ones.
I do not need to be excused for anything --- like I said before, this is NOT my litter. Visa will not be bred under MY name until the year after next year, by which time she will have show, agility, tracking, and obedience titles, and since we are bringing flyball, rally-o, flying disc, and other sports to the district through the kennel club, she will probably be titled in those as well. But, like I said before --- I don't need titles to "prove" anything. If you want to see the working ability and drive of a dog, go look at the dog yourself. All a title does is say that your dog has competed in a sport. It doesn't say it's good at it. If you are truly interested in a breed you will have joined a discussion group about them or atleast talked to several breeders. Basically any breeder in my breed's main discussion group knows about my dog (her line, temperment, working ability, health, etc). Many of them have met my dog. The same will go for any other dog.

Quote:
to say they PROVE anything about the breedability of your dog or that they have titles is completely bogus.
Once AGAIN, titles or "certificications" DO NOT PROVE the breedability of a dog, and by saying that I'M saying that about my own dog is completely insane, as I've been fighting against using titles as an accurate way of determining a dog's breedability this entire thread. Titles do not make your dog breedable. Just because my dog has her HIC and CGN does not make her breedable. The only thing that makes your dog breedable is health, temperment, working ability, and conformation. Titles do not PROVE that your dog has good health, temperment, working ability, and conformation. Nowhere in this thread am I saying that titles are a bad thing. Titles are a great thing for a breeding dog to have. It shows that the breeder is involved with his/her dog. But it does not "prove" anything, and nothing should HAVE to be proved -- if you get your information from an accurate source, you will know whether or not the dog has good health, temperment, working ability, and conformation. Titles should not be relied on for that.
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2006, 12:29 PM
whatszmatter
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so you're going to just pick the part that isn't worded very carefully and say I was trying to say that you said since you had a HIC and CGN that proved your dogs breedability??? I guess you missed the whole point in the thread that was having HIC or CGN certificates are not titles that you claim them to be.

you seemed to put them out there as if you had achieved titles with your dog or you're co-owned dog, it doesn't matter. I was just saying they aren't titles
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  #46  
Old 07-10-2006, 12:43 PM
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wolfsoul wolfsoul is offline
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Sorry if I misunderstood -- it's just that you said "to say they PROVE anything" as if I had said it.

I guess I just get so annoyed the thought of people thinking that titles prove anything because I know or know of soooo many breeders whose dogs look AWESOME on their website. Their dogs have their CH and multiple titles, they do all these different working things and sports, and so people think they are a good breeder. But I know these breeders are not good. I know that alot of them abuse their dogs, I know alot of them are producing unhealthy dogs, some of them are negligent, some of them have aggressive dogs, etc. I have a million horror stories about breeders that people think are great. I used to think titles proved something. But when I got into the dog world and I met the breeders and I met their dogs and what they were producing, I realised that I was very very wrong. Titles don't tell you that a breeder will let their puppies starve to death when they are born with a cleft palate. So sorry if I am very defensive -- I have just seen so much bad happen in my relatively short amount of time in the dog world, and alot of it revolves around perfectly titled dogs.
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  #47  
Old 07-10-2006, 01:09 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
Sorry if I misunderstood -- it's just that you said "to say they PROVE anything" as if I had said it.

I guess I just get so annoyed the thought of people thinking that titles prove anything because I know or know of soooo many breeders whose dogs look AWESOME on their website. Their dogs have their CH and multiple titles, they do all these different working things and sports, and so people think they are a good breeder. But I know these breeders are not good. I know that alot of them abuse their dogs, I know alot of them are producing unhealthy dogs, some of them are negligent, some of them have aggressive dogs, etc. I have a million horror stories about breeders that people think are great. I used to think titles proved something. But when I got into the dog world and I met the breeders and I met their dogs and what they were producing, I realised that I was very very wrong. Titles don't tell you that a breeder will let their puppies starve to death when they are born with a cleft palate. So sorry if I am very defensive -- I have just seen so much bad happen in my relatively short amount of time in the dog world, and alot of it revolves around perfectly titled dogs.
Very true!!! I think titles bring MORE stress and abuse into the dog world. People get so wound up about "show dogs" that they get "upset" when they have one born with a diformity and deem them not worthy of life and abuse them. Competition brings out the worse of people.

Last edited by GSDlover_4ever; 07-10-2006 at 01:41 PM.
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  #48  
Old 07-10-2006, 01:15 PM
JFrick JFrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDlover_4ever
Very true!!! I think titles bring MORE stress and abuse into thr dog world. People get so wound up about "sho dogs" that they get "upset" when they have one born with a diformity and deem them not worthy of life and abuse them. Competition brings out the worse of people.
Competition also brings out greed....
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  #49  
Old 07-10-2006, 01:24 PM
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Aussie Red Aussie Red is offline
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Titles are paper. I have seen and known " reputible Breeders " too and believe me what goes on behind the scenes is sick. Titled animals end up abused just as much and do end up in shelters too! Back in the Eighties I paid well for a dog $ 1500.00 , parents both had papers enough to cover the wall. Akc champions. Health tested , genetic etc.
Paid a trainer to work with me and the pup for two years. Although the animal was extremely loving and a great pet that was it . He just did not get the fact he needed to follow in parents footsteps. At three years of age found to have seizures and other health issues so my thought is it just happens.
People have petigrees too .... does not mean they are perfect.
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  #50  
Old 07-10-2006, 02:31 PM
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AmberwayGSD AmberwayGSD is offline
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In my opinion a dog should have a title prior to breeding.My Pups Dam has her HGH and her Sire has A SchH 1.My dog will be doing SchH and German Shows.Pretty much any breed can get a HIC,to me it is not a title same as cgn or cgc.
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