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  #21  
Old 07-07-2006, 11:37 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RD
I absolutely agree regarding herding dogs. Most dogs that work ranches on a daily basis can out-herd trial dogs, but rarely do they get trialed because they are so busy working. They're almost always untitled, but they are some of the best workers and shouldn't be passed up just because they haven't won any trials. I notice a lot of pedigrees linebreeding on herding champions, and that's great, to win ISDS trials the dog has to be awesome. However, with everybody scrambling to breed to the champion, I think I would breed to an untitled ranch dog if only for diversity in the gene pool. Untitled dogs have a lot to offer and a lack of abbreviations before/after the dog's name doren't concern me if I can get my hands on the dog and see it work.
That is exactly my point. There are still many working dogs in the US and many dont have time to get titles. Some are out with S&R, herding, police work ect, and IMO getting titled does not fit into their busy schedule. I would rather SEE the dog work with my own eyes than reading it on a paper.
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:51 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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I think that when it comes to show dogs, titles are very important. How else can you prove that a dog is good at showing? With working dogs, as long as the dog is a genuine, good working dog and not just "from working lines", I don't think it's so important. It's pretty simple to tell a real working dog from one that isn't.

You see that a lot where I live. This is ranching country, and livestock guardian dogs and herding dogs are extremely popular. The majority of them are untitled, but that doesn't make a difference in their ability.
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2006, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by elegy
i think titles are extremely important. i don't understand the whole argument of "she could have a title in a heartbeat if i took the time to show her". so take the time! prove that she's as great as you say. show that you cared enough to put the time, effort, and money into it.
Well said. My feelings as well. I've met plenty of BYB pet breeders who give the whole "oh she could get that title in a heartbeat!" load of manure.
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gempress
I think that when it comes to show dogs, titles are very important. How else can you prove that a dog is good at showing?
There are many ways to tell. Ask to see the online registry database. My dog doesn't have her championship, but if you look at the online database or the Belgian statistic page for 2005, you'll see that she was the #19 Belgian in Canada last year (from just one show), beating 25 dogs and earning a total of 5 points (I said 4 before, but it's five lol).

I hate how everyone says titles should be on a dog to "PROVE" things. While titles are great, they show you are involved with your dog and that your dog gets out there...They don't prove alot. My dog was a total freak for her CGN and she passed. Championships prove nothing unless it is a common breed and an Am CH rather than a Can CH. Some of the ugliest dogs I know are champions. Several people hosting herding instinct certifications will certify a dog that chases. Some dogs are entered in hundreds of trials before they actually earn a title.

Like I've said a hundred times before -- they only way to "prove" that the dog is a good working/show dog is to see it in action yourself and/or talk to several people who know the dog. Titles are easier to earn than most people think.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
There are many ways to tell. Ask to see the online registry database. My dog doesn't have her championship, but if you look at the online database or the Belgian statistic page for 2005, you'll see that she was the #19 Belgian in Canada last year (from just one show), beating 25 dogs and earning a total of 5 points (I said 4 before, but it's five lol).

I hate how everyone says titles should be on a dog to "PROVE" things. While titles are great, they show you are involved with your dog and that your dog gets out there...They don't prove alot. My dog was a total freak for her CGN and she passed. Championships prove nothing unless it is a common breed and an Am CH rather than a Can CH. Some of the ugliest dogs I know are champions. Several people hosting herding instinct certifications will certify a dog that chases. Some dogs are entered in hundreds of trials before they actually earn a title.

Like I've said a hundred times before -- they only way to "prove" that the dog is a good working/show dog is to see it in action yourself and/or talk to several people who know the dog. Titles are easier to earn than most people think.
Well said!!!
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
There are many ways to tell. Ask to see the online registry database. My dog doesn't have her championship, but if you look at the online database or the Belgian statistic page for 2005, you'll see that she was the #19 Belgian in Canada last year (from just one show), beating 25 dogs and earning a total of 5 points (I said 4 before, but it's five lol).

I hate how everyone says titles should be on a dog to "PROVE" things. While titles are great, they show you are involved with your dog and that your dog gets out there...They don't prove alot. My dog was a total freak for her CGN and she passed. Championships prove nothing unless it is a common breed and an Am CH rather than a Can CH. Some of the ugliest dogs I know are champions. Several people hosting herding instinct certifications will certify a dog that chases. Some dogs are entered in hundreds of trials before they actually earn a title.

Like I've said a hundred times before -- they only way to "prove" that the dog is a good working/show dog is to see it in action yourself and/or talk to several people who know the dog. Titles are easier to earn than most people think.
That is only true with rare breeds. Yes, it is easier for a rare breed dog to earn a championship titles than, say, a golden retriever. But what you need to do to make up for the lack of competition is go farther than earning the dogs championship title. Go to some more well known shows where the competition is harder. That is when you will really test your dog out.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:41 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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Wolfsoul, can you tell me where you can see this data base that has this information?

Is it just for Belgians, or can you check other breeds that show in the CKC rings?
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2006, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackDog
That is only true with rare breeds.
I agree that it's much easier with rare breeds, but even common breeds that aren't the best looking can get their Canadian Championship. I refrain from saying American championship because it IS hard for a common breed to get an American championship. In Canada, you don't need majors. All you need is ten points. Shelties are VERY common in the showring, and I personally know one that isn't a very good example of the breed --- she has been entered in atleast 20 or 30 shows within the past two years. She doesn't earn a point in most of them, but occasionally there aren't alot of females and she'll take Winners Bitch, giving her a point or two. In two years of showing with many many shows, she has managed to get 8 points -- only needs two more, and she'll ger her Canadian Championship. She's never been group placed, she's never even taken breed. Does this mean she is a good example of her breed? Alot of dogs will get their Canadian championship in one weekend. Does that make them a good example of their breed?

Quote:
Wolfsoul, can you tell me where you can see this data base that has this information?

Is it just for Belgians, or can you check other breeds that show in the CKC rings?
There is a database on Dogs in Canada -- problem is, you have to be a member. I'm not sure if that means you need to be a CKC member or not. Visa's breeder always just says "I'll check the database for you.." LOL. I've never actually seen it myself.

I've seen statistics pages for several breeds on which dogs are currently in the standings for that year. Usually they are just personal pages so it can take some searching.
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2006, 11:23 PM
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Thumbs down

All I see is excuses, excuses, excuses.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2006, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summitview
All I see is excuses, excuses, excuses.
What does that mean?
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