Pitts have more psi than other dogs????

Roxy's CD

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#21
Dr2little, if we're thinking the same thing, that's why I intially was leaning towards pits having a stronger bite than your average dog.

From the inside there is a large mass of muscle in the cheeks. I was under the impression that it worked like any other muscle, contracted and pulled the joint tight (jaw). If there was more muscle that would make the closing action stronger/faster. Hades and Roxy have very different mouths. Roxy does not have in any way shape or form, the ball that Hades has on either side of his cheeks from the inside. It's about 2inces in diameter, and you can grab it from the outside easily and rub it, it feels just like a muscle, and a ball at the same time. LOL
 
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rottiegirl

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#22
My opinion on dog muscle....

One dog might be stronger than another dog, because one is more physically fit than the other. One dog might use their jaws more than another dog. All dogs dont build muscle at the same rate, because some are more active than others.

Another point...

Different breeds have different shaped heads and muzzles. A dobes head and muzzle is longer than a bull mastiffs head, so a dobe has more area on its head to grow muscle. They both could have the same amount of muscle, but it would be more pronounced in a bull mastiff, because he has less area. Same goes for all breeds. All breeds are capable of growing the same amount of muscle.

Another thing.... a pits head, a presa canario head, a rotties head, etc. is wider than a golden, dobe, grey hound, etc. A wider skull can give the impression of bigger jaw muscles. The wide skull pushes the muscle out, so the muscle looks more pronounced.



It has nothing to do with breed.
 

Lilavati

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#25
That's just absurd. I've heard this myth before. It is the stupidist, most ignorant, most physically impossible piece of propoganda horse crap I think I've ever heard.

All domestic dogs hang around 350 MAX, INCLUDING pit bulls.

Great white sharks are 400.

A lion around 600.

Hyenas, one of the most powerful jaws out there, hit 1000.

2600 is the range of crocodiles and allegators.

A pit bull CAN'T bite with that much force, its against the freaking laws of physics. At least these lunatics could think to come up with propaganda that is at least PLAUSIBLE??

If pit bulls had the bite force of crocodiles, then they would actually rip off limbs of adult humans in one bite. In fact, not even rip them off, sever them, including the bone, in one stroke. I've never heard of that happening . . . and I'm sure no one else has either . . . at least, not from any reliable source. Why . . . because its not possible for a animal with a dog's anatomy to do it . . .

As for locking jaws, don't get me started. Try looking at some dog skulls.
 
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#26
Hyenas are not dogs, for the record. They are most closely related to CATS. (The cat family tree is crazy)

All else being equal, the shorter the muzzle, the stronger the bite force. Human bites HURT and we have no jaw muscles. So a pit should have a stronger bite than a collie, but its not a huge difference.

As for Rotties, there is that story of the Patrol Rottie snapping a suspects femur after he kicked it in his attempt to escape. The dog readjusted its bite from the lower leg to the femur and bit down. I don't know what the bite force was, but that would be a very unhappy dog to do that.
 
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#28
I know some don't like the woman, but Diane Jessup wrote in her book that dogs will bite differently depending on what drive they're in, their level of fatigue, and other factors. Makes sense to me. There's a video on YouTube (search bite force competition and you should find it) which tests a Pit Bull, Rottie and GSD. The Rottie won out over the other two, with the Pit Bull coming in last. However, I just can't believe its as simple as all that.
 

Lilavati

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#29
Hyenas are not dogs, for the record. They are most closely related to CATS. (The cat family tree is crazy)

All else being equal, the shorter the muzzle, the stronger the bite force. Human bites HURT and we have no jaw muscles. So a pit should have a stronger bite than a collie, but its not a huge difference.

As for Rotties, there is that story of the Patrol Rottie snapping a suspects femur after he kicked it in his attempt to escape. The dog readjusted its bite from the lower leg to the femur and bit down. I don't know what the bite force was, but that would be a very unhappy dog to do that.
I did not intend to imply hyenas are dogs . . . they are more closely related to cats . . ., and mainly related to themselves. But they are some of the most powerful land carnivore jaws.

And as for the relative strength of bites . . . its possible that pit bulls have a stronger bite than other dogs . .. but 2600 psi is impossible.
 

Amstaffer

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#30
I did not intend to imply hyenas are dogs . . . they are more closely related to cats . . ., and mainly related to themselves. But they are some of the most powerful land carnivore jaws.

And as for the relative strength of bites . . . its possible that pit bulls have a stronger bite than other dogs . .. but 2600 psi is impossible.
Did you know that they are more closely related to Meerkats than Cat....just thought I would share that tad bit of Animal Planet knowledge that I hold :p
 

Corgi

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#31
I believe it. Not the 2600psi part, but the "stronger than other dogs" part. They were bred to fight, so of course they need strong jaws. Maybe not 2600psi, but definitely stronger than, say, a Collie's bite, but whenever I see a Pitbull with a big jaw and strong jaw muscles, I can't help but think "dang, I wonder how hard that dog can bite!"
 

Amstaffer

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#35
That's one pitbull which looks considerably smaller than most I've seen (and it's sort of refreshing to see one that isn't completely exaggerated) but I can't comprehend a dog that was bred to have a strong bite and fight bulls have a weaker bite than other dogs.
That pit bull is exactly the size of what a pit bull should be. Pit Bulls were not bred to have Strong Jaws....but rather have endurance and game. They one fights because they could out last and refusal to quit.

Every test of dog bite strength continues to find the same result. The Bigger the dog the strong the bite. Also the variation between dogs of the same size is not significant.

It is hard to give up the years of Mythical BS that we have been fed on the Pit Bull but it is just a legend (PSI bite stuff). The Pit Bull is just a dog not a Mammalian Croc.
 

Corgi

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#36
That pit bull is exactly the size of what a pit bull should be. Pit Bulls were not bred to have Strong Jaws....but rather have endurance and game. They one fights because they could out last and refusal to quit.

Every test of dog bite strength continues to find the same result. The Bigger the dog the strong the bite. Also the variation between dogs of the same size is not significant.

It is hard to give up the years of Mythical BS that we have been fed on the Pit Bull but it is just a legend (PSI bite stuff). The Pit Bull is just a dog not a Mammalian Croc.
Exactly, should be, just like they should be athleticly built with deep chests and a slight tuck up. The pitbulls I've seen are usually larger than the one in the video, I haven't seen any in a while since I moved. I guess out in the country, people are content with beagles and Labradors and don't feel the need to walk around with a macho Pitbull LOL (plus you won't impress anyone around here...we're just cozy country dwellers :)) I still believe that Pitbulls have stronger bites than most dogs, but they were comparing a pit to just two other breeds. What about Boxers and Labradors and Staffies and Greyhounds? What about Weimaraners and Mastiffs and uh, Chihuahuas?
 

Amstaffer

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#37
Exactly, should be, just like they should be athleticly built with deep chests and a slight tuck up. The pitbulls I've seen are usually larger than the one in the video, I haven't seen any in a while since I moved. I guess out in the country, people are content with beagles and Labradors and don't feel the need to walk around with a macho Pitbull LOL (plus you won't impress anyone around here...we're just cozy country dwellers :)) I still believe that Pitbulls have stronger bites than most dogs, but they were comparing a pit to just two other breeds. What about Boxers and Labradors and Staffies and Greyhounds? What about Weimaraners and Mastiffs and uh, Chihuahuas?
A 50lb Dog of any breed that is the same age and condition will have roughly the same PSI bite with in 5%. That is what every study I have ever seen has said. The only real difference is when you train dogs in bite work, dogs can learn to bite their hardest when asked to. I guess it would be like boxers learning to get the most out of their punch.
 

noludoru

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#38
Lilavati, I would just like to add, that, for the record, crocodiles and alligators are not dogs. :D Really, I'm just kidding. The hyena comment put me in tears of laughter and I couldn't resist.
 
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#39
A Pit Bull didn't need a crushing bite to do well in the pit (fighting arena). That's a generalization made by people who really don't know about the "sport." They needed heart, and the desire to keep going no matter what. Your average match didn't involve dogs biting right through each other, so the idea that they needed a stronger bite to compete really isn't true.

Exactly, should be, just like they should be athleticly built with deep chests and a slight tuck up. The pitbulls I've seen are usually larger than the one in the video, I haven't seen any in a while since I moved. I guess out in the country, people are content with beagles and Labradors and don't feel the need to walk around with a macho Pitbull LOL
Where do you get your information? Slight tuck? That's wrong as well. They're supposed to be lean athletes, which means having a fair amount of tuck and less belly fat. If the "Pitbulls" you've seen are larger with bigger heads, those are not from fighting stock, or even bred to any standard I could name, but are likely the living bling that has been bred by amateurs which they're calling American Bullies nowadays. This is a standard-bred APBT:



44 pounds, 19 inches tall. Deep chested, yes. Regular tuck-up. No massive head-piece or swaggering 'tude.

As for impressing people, I moved to the country with my 3 APBTs to get away from people constantly trying to impress themselves upon me. All we want to do is live in peace. Don't lump all owners of one breed in together. Generalizations can be made about people who own Beagles and Labs as well. :)
 

DryCreek

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#40
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9693626?ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Measurement of bite force in dogs: a pilot study.

Lindner DL, Marretta SM, Pijanowski GJ, Johnson AL, Smith CW.

Department of Veterinary Clinical Medicine, University of Illinois, Urbana 61801, USA.

A force transducer was developed to measure bite force in dogs. A total of 101 readings was obtained from 22 pet dogs ranging in size from 7 to 55 kg. Bite forces ranged from 13 to 1394 Newtons with a mean for all dogs of 256 Newtons and a median of 163 Newtons. Most measurements fell within the low end of the range, with 55% of the biting episodes less than 200 Newtons and 77% less than 400 Newtons.

PMID: 9693626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://dogbitesinformationandstatistics.blogspot.com/2008/01/canine-bite-force.html

1 newton = 0.224808943 pounds force, so 1394 newtons would be 313.38 pounds force, according to OnlineConversion.com. The dogs in the study ranged in weight from 15.4 lb to 121 lb.
When Brady Barr measured the bite force of various animals for a National Geographic program, a hyena again was measured at 1000 pounds of force. A lion's bite force measured 691, a shark 669, and a Rottweiler 328 pounds of force. A German shepherd came in at 238, and a pit bull's bite was measured at 235 pounds of force. As far as I can tell, there are no studies of any kind, peer-reviewed or not, showing canine bite force to measure more than the 328 psi pounds of force recorded by Brady Barr. If you know of any, please share.
 

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