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  #41  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:31 AM
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Why then does certification work for so many other countries?
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ruffiangirl View Post
Why then does certification work for so many other countries?
Does it work? Can you train your own dog or must the dog be program-trained?
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  #43  
Old 07-07-2014, 06:47 AM
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Why then does certification work for so many other countries?
There is no documentation on whether it works or not in other countries other than anecdotal data.
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2014, 08:27 AM
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I'm not going to complain too much, because it's the country that is employing me and filled with some wonderful things..

BUT I'm taking Merlin to London on the chance that he may never be able to truly be my service animal, he will alert at home/on public transport/wherever else I can take him (which is still an ENORMOUS HELP) but it won't be everywhere because they have no owner certification and the only program to help people work with their OWN animals is only for physical/mobility type disabilities
Now, this is a huge painful thing to deal with. We are working on it and my job is maybe going to help out but still.

Now take EVERY owner handler in America, how much their dogs have helped them personally..(and all the people who couldn't afford org trained service animals etc.. or like me who had needs those places didn't fill)
and compared to that, how much have fakers REALLY done? I don't know about you, but I've seen in my lifetime like 5 of them, tops.
How does it even compare?
Is the PROBLEM as serious as potentially stopping all that good? I don't think so..

So does one governing org training and distributing dog stop fakers? I mean, I'm sure it certainly helps...
but think of what we'd be losing


just my 2 cents.
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Is the PROBLEM as serious as potentially stopping all that good? I don't think so...
This is how I feel about it, too. It's a solution in search of a problem, really. I can't say that I've ever seen anyone I've even been remotely suspicious of being a faker, despite all the anecdotal reports of how common it is.

But people just really, really don't like to see other people getting away with stuff no matter how rare it is or how little it affects them personally.
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  #46  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:17 AM
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I agree with Fran.

Mandatory certification (or banning owner training in general) makes it so, so difficult for the many people needing these dogs to get them. Yes, it means we have to deal with fakers, clueless handlers, and dogs that don't have the temperament to be a service dog being forced to work anyways... actually, wait, certification doesn't fix that. The latter two come from programs just as frequently.

I've met my share of bad program dogs and bad OT'd dogs. I've helped a lot of people train their OT dogs, I've helped quite a few people fix their program dogs. I've trained three SDs from the ground up in my home.

There are no (good) psychiatric service dog organizations, it's a very difficult thing to mass-train for. Those people would no longer be able to have their service dog. Seizure alert/response dogs are difficult to mass-train for. Mobility and guidework are easier, but most programs still screw it up. There are maybe 2-3 programs (between all of the different jobs) that I would ever consider recommending to someone. They just aren't as good of an option as people believe.
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  #47  
Old 07-07-2014, 10:48 AM
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I've never seen a fake service dog so disruptive that it would merit additional laws making life more difficult for disabled people with a legitimate, trained service dog. Trained does not just mean task trained, it means public access trained, too.

I took my sdit on a plane for the first time at about nine months of age. She'd been public access training since about five months. The only way to proof training on a plane is to take your service dog on a flight. Every dog has their first flight, some dogs like to embarrass their handlers at the worst possible times.

I was lucky that Eve was always on her very best behavior on flights, but sometimes in other places, she sucked. One day in Lowe's she decided to stand directly underfoot, trip me and scream like she was dying when I stepped on her foot. Disasters happen with dogs. It's lame. I'm sure people who saw my sdit and I on a bad day would've questioned our legitimacy too. Not all sunshine and rainbows with re dogs and real people.

I feel that no service dog under any circumstances should be trained to solicit attention from the public. That's a red flag for me. Dog can't do is job properly if it's worried about getting something from other people.
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  #48  
Old 07-07-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
...But people just really, really don't like to see other people getting away with stuff no matter how rare it is or how little it affects them personally.
I have two problems with fake service dogs.

#1- i
t just makes things harder for people with real service dogs (just like bad/irresponsible dog owners make it harder for the rest of us).

#2- if I can follow the rules/laws with my well behaved, trained non service dog, so can everyone else.
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  #49  
Old 07-07-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
Does it work? Can you train your own dog or must the dog be program-trained?


Yes you can owner train, you just have to be certified at the end, as per ADIs website. And as I said I have never seen a fake service dog here, ever. When my parents wintered in Arizona we went down for Christmas (so it wasn't even hot out) and I saw several people doing it, it used to **** my dad off to no end because he would leave his dog at the bus it in their liberty, and others would pack their dogs around claiming they were service dogs, and they were not well trained, one chihuahua snapped when we walked by.
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  #50  
Old 07-07-2014, 11:23 AM
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I would be the first to agree that there's a problem with fakers. The solution is to enforce laws that already exist to protect businesses and the public. The solution is for businesses to learn their rights and train how to enforce it. Why make new laws when the existing ones aren't enforced? Certification won't suddenly make businesses enforce their rights.

They would have to train how to recognize a real SD certification vs a fake SD certification and enforce it otherwise it would be useless and people will keep right on faking with fake certification.

So the answer is the same in both scenarios. Why make new useless laws when you can just........ Enforce what's already there.

It would be like making another law that forbids murder because people are still murdering even though we have laws against it already. Why? It won't help stop murders. Just enforce the existing laws against murder and don't waste people's time trying to make useless laws.
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