Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:34 PM
MicksMom's Avatar
MicksMom MicksMom is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warren Co, NJ
Posts: 3,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBark View Post
...
Or, just, ya know.... enforce the laws that already exist. SD's are not allowed to be a nuisance, and business owners are already legally allowed to remove a SD from the premises if they are being a nuisance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBark View Post
...
So in other words, make certification, what happens?

Honest people will have to jump through even more hurdles than they already do to get the assistance they desperately need.

Dishonest people will get away with it easier since it's even less enforced than it already is as long as you have a online certificate you can buy for 20 bucks.
__________________
My Labrador Retriever is Smarter Than the President
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:48 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,028
Default

A dog flew in the overhead bin?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:57 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
dogstrong
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 3,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBark View Post
What exactly did I twist? You didn't say anything I disagree with.

I agree that legitimate service dogs should not behave like that, and that training should be done to avoid that. My point is that watching someone in a 5 minute, stressful window of their life is not a fair assesment of whether it's a legitimate SD or not.

I never said that the dogs in question were, in fact, service dogs. I said that such judgement should be reserved until more information is put onto the table (is this a one time thing? Is the dog sick? etc etc)

I mean really. Would you want passerby's to judge your legitimacy if your dog had a sudden atypical behavior arise? All they saw is that one moment, does that one moment make you not a legitimate SD owner?


EDIT:

And I know that there are vests for SDIT's. I never said otherwise. Case in point, my own dog...

Pictures at a Park 11/6/08 by RBark, on Flickr
What Hovawart was saying, not what I was. How you deal with an issue matters. Grabbing a dog's muzzle and shoving it into a crate to shut it up is not an acceptable response to that issue.

"They don't have a vest for SDIT's. They have a tag, as in a collar tag. I have one for Priscilla."

Who is "they"? I had thought you were saying SDITs in general don't wear vests.

Sass, I was thinking it may have been a small crate that can fit under the seats (it'd fit in an overhead bin, but hopefully wouldn't be put there..?). That's what we flew the cats in.
__________________
What I need, Dog becomes.
Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything.




Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:08 PM
MicksMom's Avatar
MicksMom MicksMom is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warren Co, NJ
Posts: 3,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
A dog flew in the overhead bin?
I think she meant the empty crate went in the overhead bin. At least, that's the way I understood it.
__________________
My Labrador Retriever is Smarter Than the President
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:11 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,028
Default

^^ Ah, that makes more sense. The couple of times I've seen SDs on airplanes they weren't crated at all and in any case stuffing a dog into the overhead bin seemed bizarre.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:11 PM
RBark's Avatar
RBark RBark is offline
Got Floof?
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 909
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julee View Post
What Hovawart was saying, not what I was. How you deal with an issue matters. Grabbing a dog's muzzle and shoving it into a crate to shut it up is not an acceptable response to that issue.

"They don't have a vest for SDIT's. They have a tag, as in a collar tag. I have one for Priscilla."

Who is "they"? I had thought you were saying SDITs in general don't wear vests.

Sass, I was thinking it may have been a small crate that can fit under the seats (it'd fit in an overhead bin, but hopefully wouldn't be put there..?). That's what we flew the cats in.
Nah, that was poorly worded. I was responding to the assertion that SDIT's are required to have vests in the states where SDIT's have equal rights to SD's. I was saying that vests are not required even for SDIT's, but they do have a collar tag.

And yeah, I agree again that she dealt with it poorly. But you and I are not the typical SD owner who is interested in dog training. The typical SD owner is poorly equipped to understand how to deal with a issue like that, and it does not surprise me that it was handled poorly. After all, they came to them pre-trained and only are taught how to maintain the training.

To be honest, I have no idea which part of Hovawart's words you think I'm twisting. Unless you point it out to me I can't really respond to that.
__________________

Kobe the Fluffy Cloud, Alaskan Malibu-te, Mar. '05
Syl the Stormblessed, Border Collie, Dec. '13


Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
dogstrong
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 3,068
Default

Ah, gotcha. Even then, many states don't have the tag. Hovawart was trying to express that service dogs should be extremely well behaved and controlled, and any issues should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. You were going on about how she said they should be perfect, which is not what she said or meant.

Ehhh. Not many programs train small SDs, which (combined with the behavior and response to the behavior) is making me think that particular dog is not legitimate. Personally, I believe that this mass training and placing thing going on with most programs is despicable. Handing over young, barely trained dogs with questionable temperaments to disabled handlers that have a few days training... yeah, definitely a recipe for success. I hate the service dog "industry". The community isn't much better, particularly most owner trainers.

Anyways.
__________________
What I need, Dog becomes.
Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything.




Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:32 PM
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CA
Posts: 1,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
In the UK your dog is only considered a service dog if it has been trained by one of the main organisations. You can't sling a vest on any old dog. You aren't allowed access unless it is a legit assistance dog. Full stop.

Canada as well, and I have never seen someone fake a service dog here, I have seen asshole drag their dogs into places, but if they are asked to leave they leave because they have no way of faking the dog being a service dog.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:33 PM
RBark's Avatar
RBark RBark is offline
Got Floof?
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 909
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julee View Post
Ah, gotcha. Even then, many states don't have the tag. Hovawart was trying to express that service dogs should be extremely well behaved and controlled, and any issues should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. You were going on about how she said they should be perfect, which is not what she said or meant.

Ehhh. Not many programs train small SDs, which (combined with the behavior and response to the behavior) is making me think that particular dog is not legitimate. Personally, I believe that this mass training and placing thing going on with most programs is despicable. Handing over young, barely trained dogs with questionable temperaments to disabled handlers that have a few days training... yeah, definitely a recipe for success. I hate the service dog "industry". The community isn't much better, particularly most owner trainers.

Anyways.
Well yeah, maybe she poorly worded it but the question was of legitimacy. Being poorly behaved in a single situation on one bad day doesn't make a the dog not legitimate. Believing that one 5 minute window to represent everything about the dog means the expectation is the dog must be perfect 100% of the time, no exception. If that is not what she means then I take it back, but that is how it sounds to me.

I just simply believe that jumping to conclusions over a single scene is rather harsh, however poorly it may have been handled. We all have bad days. I know for a fact I've done similar things out of frustration and embarrassment that I immediately regretted my poor handling of it afterward.
__________________

Kobe the Fluffy Cloud, Alaskan Malibu-te, Mar. '05
Syl the Stormblessed, Border Collie, Dec. '13


Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:42 PM
elegy's Avatar
elegy elegy is offline
overdogged
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBark View Post
Make a test certification requirement, everyone will get fake certifications that you can buy freely online right now already even though it's not required, and it will continue to not be enforced, and business owners will have even less rights to combat fakers than they do right now.

Or, just, ya know.... enforce the laws that already exist. SD's are not allowed to be a nuisance, and business owners are already legally allowed to remove a SD from the premises if they are being a nuisance.

The reason they don't is because they feel it's a legal and social landmine. If you require certification, they are going to be even LESS likely to enforce it because they do not want to spend the money and risk having ID's checked and training people on what the laws are.

So in other words, make certification, what happens?

Honest people will have to jump through even more hurdles than they already do to get the assistance they desperately need.

Dishonest people will get away with it easier since it's even less enforced than it already is as long as you have a online certificate you can buy for 20 bucks.
Yes. This. All of this.
__________________
ARCHX Luce CD CD-H RA RL3 RLV RL2X RL1X CGC TT
Steve RA RL1 CL1-R CL1-F ONYX
Bean FDCh-G
and Hambone, flyball hopeful
Save the pit bull, Save the world
Are you Unruly?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site