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  #31  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 AM
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There are levels...to me this is a level where punishing serves absolutely no purpose.

Ice cream shop - no I dont think there should be any charge. I would be shocked if there were charges brought up and would be really upset unless there was something else going on.

Gun on table - I do feel there should be a charge....and yes I realize in some ways its the same and this may make my a hypocrite but I also think its more of a reminder to only have guns out where children can never ever get to them unattended. I see no reason for a gun being such a routine thing that it would be a slip of the mind to forget its on the table. I guess its kind of like how I feel when I make soap. When I have the lye out or the caustic batter out I do NOT leave, even for a second. I know exactly where the kids and animals are that whole time so that there are no accidents. A car is an every day thing that generally speaking is low risk....you cant have the same danger level of using one as you should with a gun IMO. Then again, I dont think the parent needs jail time for a gun unless there are other circumstances...like the gun is never locked up or the parents were passed out/strung out.

Pill bottle...lean towards no charge but kind of depends.


Children are really hard. Some are so much more naturally into things or wanderers. I have one. I watch him like a hawk and even then he sometimes slips my vision or gets into stuff he shouldnt. I am very against punishment for punishments sake...I think it serves no purpose. Especially in cases where good parents make a mistake and other children are involved (meaning that parent has other children) I think one of the WORST things we can do is punish (ie put in prison).
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  #32  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:01 AM
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But they're all accidents... What makes one better or worse than another?
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  #33  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
But they're all accidents... What makes one better or worse than another?
This puzzles me, too. Why is it ok/forgivable to leave the gun out because you forgot, but not ok because you were passed out? Either way, the gun is left out because of your inattention.
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  #34  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
This puzzles me, too. Why is it ok/forgivable to leave the gun out because you forgot, but not ok because you were passed out? Either way, the gun is left out because of your inattention.
To me there are layers there. Passing out is in a way intentional...as you are taking something you shouldnt be while watching your children. Then add another layer of also leaving the gun out....

Leaving a child in a car because you truly forgot in a normal scenario versus being high or drunk, yes, I see a big difference. You are doing something that endangers the child's life in the first place that starts the chain.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:13 AM
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There are always levels really.

Dog bites child

A. Family dog that has never shown aggression. Family very involved, dog well trained. One day dog is injured and in panic bites a child.

B. Abused and neglected dog lives in a family. Dog shows all the warning signs. Parents pass out from drugs/alcohol/whatever and child gets bit wandering into the dogs yard.

Do people really not see a difference in those two scenarios? Because I see a huge difference.
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  #36  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:17 AM
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You're setting up two completely different scenarios than the previous examples like the gun sitting on the table. A better comparison would be:

A: Child wanders away from sober, lucid parent into dog's yard and is bitten
B: Parent passes out, child wanders away into a dog's yard and is bitten
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
You're setting up two completely different scenarios than the previous examples like the gun sitting on the table. A better comparison would be:

A: Child wanders away from sober, lucid parent into dog's yard and is bitten
B: Parent passes out, child wanders away into a dog's yard and is bitten
Those scenarios still show a very different set of circumstances that would influence how I feel about the outcome.

Children are quick and sometimes they can get away before we even realize it but parent just passes out leaving a young child to their own devices and the child wanders and gets hurt... that shows neglect led to the injury IMO
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  #38  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
You're setting up two completely different scenarios than the previous examples like the gun sitting on the table. A better comparison would be:

A: Child wanders away from sober, lucid parent into dog's yard and is bitten
B: Parent passes out, child wanders away into a dog's yard and is bitten
I wasnt using that example as a direct comparison to the gun. I was using it as the same outcome of an accident can happen with the scenarios being very different and to me, the fault or reasons are much different. In one I see neglect, the other I dont.

Both cases the dog belongs to the parents. The dog is properly cared for and safely managed in the first case and there is a tragic accident. In the second case the dog is not properly cared for nor managed. Layered with parents not being lucid nor watching.

And in the situation quoted I still see a difference in whether the possibility of charges should be brought up.

With the gun, I actually agree that there should be charges (though I may change my mind depending and if there were more details) but my gut reaction would be yes, charges. Gun is like having a dangerous dog and needs to be super managed and hyper vigilance with multiple safeguards should be in place.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:49 AM
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guns just aren't that scary to me. Generations grew up with loaded guns on racks, in closets, with guns out and the ammo in a box sitting right next to. I don't think they're anymore dangerous than a lot of other things in the house. But I don't really want to turn this into a gun debate.

Dogs are the same. I don't expect my dogs to hurt any child, but if one would wander into my yard and somethign happened and parents had a brief lapse, i'd feel horrible. If the parents were passed out drunk, I'd feel bad for the kid and tell the parents to suck it.

If it were my kid, and it was a momentary lapse type thing, my fault, what more do you wan to do to punish me? I wouldn't want to do anything more to you. I have a history or pattern of not giving a ****? i guess sooner or later I should be punished further, just as I'd expect to happen to you.

Quote:
But they're all accidents... What makes one better or worse than another?
I already said, intention for the most part. I know we can argue dead is dead or injured is injured etc, but that's not the argument I'm making. If it's your's, then I guess I have no rebuttal because I think intention makes all the difference in the world. Not in the end result, but what should happen to those involved by society.

And anyway, why are you here, you should be enjoying what's left of your vacation you have much to see and limited days to do it in.
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  #40  
Old 06-24-2014, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19 View Post
Those scenarios still show a very different set of circumstances that would influence how I feel about the outcome.

Children are quick and sometimes they can get away before we even realize it but parent just passes out leaving a young child to their own devices and the child wanders and gets hurt... that shows neglect led to the injury IMO
Does the scenario change if the parent passes out due to exhaustion from working long hours all day?
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