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  #21  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:48 PM
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If its a dog purposely left vs a child forgotten? THat to me is the huge difference. Punishing someone for making a stupid decision that causes injury is different than punishing someone for doing something they were totally unaware that they were doing. The parents are not choosing to leave the kids in the car (in the cases I am talking about) but have truly thought they already dropped them off at day care. There is no lesson there...no hey, think about this before you make this decision. In a choice yes, ramifications others have faced may make the person think about what they are doing.

And yes, the story that happened the other day, and in some others, the parent was charged with actual murder.
I was thinking specifically of this thread. An officer in Phoenix got a phone call that his son was in a serious car accident and forgot his K9 in his squad car for hours, resulting in the dogs death.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/show...hoenix+k9+dies
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
I was thinking specifically of this thread. An officer in Phoenix got a phone call that his son was in a serious car accident and forgot his K9 in his squad car for hours, resulting in the dogs death.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/show...hoenix+k9+dies
I would not support that officer being charged in that situation.
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  #23  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:55 PM
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I would not support that officer being charged in that situation.
Neither do I honestly, but there is a huge disparity in poster's reactions to the dog dying vs. children in this thread.
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  #24  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
If its a dog purposely left vs a child forgotten? THat to me is the huge difference. Punishing someone for making a stupid decision that causes injury is different than punishing someone for doing something they were totally unaware that they were doing. The parents are not choosing to leave the kids in the car (in the cases I am talking about) but have truly thought they already dropped them off at day care. There is no lesson there...no hey, think about this before you make this decision. In a choice yes, ramifications others have faced may make the person think about what they are doing.

And yes, the story that happened the other day, and in some others, the parent was charged with actual murder.
Right. It's not that they dont' think of their child all day. They do think of their baby and when they do they "know" their kid is at daycare. So they can be thinking of their kid all day long until they get to their car, I think in one story the parent didn't even realize something was wrong until they went to pick the kid up from daycare.

Haven't you even SWORN you know something or have done something only to find out you didn't? Sure it may not have happened with anything regarding your child but if your brain glitches, it glitches. It's not about how much you care or about a rampant mental deficiency that you have notice of.

And if your dog is curled up in the back and you think you've dropped it off at daycare all day long until you get to the daycare... I'd just feel really bad for you and the dog and whomever else.

If you decide to wing it and leave your dog in the car on a hot day because you dont' want to drop the dog off before grocery shopping and the dog dies, that's neglect.
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  #25  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:27 PM
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Ok.... its more than oops I forgot my child. I did read the story. There's an overwhelming theme in it. The parents were nearly all not paying attentive and on their phones in the car. For starters.

I'm not saying they're not accidents. I'm saying they should be paying attention to driving at the very least, if not their child.

And I still think a reminder is not a stupid idea!
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:33 PM
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No reminders are a great idea! They are definitely a suggestion from the story! The problem is they only work if you use them and in many of the cases, the usual reminders (baby in rearview mirror behind passenger seat, diaper bag on front seat, etc) were different for that day. And as long as people keep the "It will NEVER happen to me" mindset, they will not use them That was the take home message I got. There are alarms and sensors even out there but people in general wont pay because its not worth it to them with that mindset. I never thought of using them to be honest...though my case is a bit different since I did not use daycare and they were literally always with me...still, I should have to be safe.

Honestly I only remember the cell phone being an issue in one of the stories I read about but there very well could be more.
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  #27  
Old 06-23-2014, 11:18 PM
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In some cases I've read about, it happened because routine was changed. IE, mommy usually dropped baby off at daycare in the mornings but <insert reason> happened so daddy had to do drive baby. He was used to doing XYZ and once in the car going down the road reverted back to XYZ.

I can see how having a routine interrupted can lead to something like this. I also understand how everyone *thinks* that would never ever happen to them.

Honestly though, If you have children you know it only takes a moment, just one minute of distraction can be disastrous some days.
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:21 AM
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I think intent definitely plays a role and for some reason, when it's your own child, I think the rules change a bit. I guess when you break it right down, it's the same, but I just see it differently. If someone is watching your child and does something or forgets something, etc, it's different to me. They should be punished. For parents and tragedy like this occurs, how does anybody benefit by charging them with murder? I certainly don't feel any better, i'm sure the family doesn't, nor anybody else that really matters.

Oh well, i guess i'm just growing tired of our whole societal view of punishment. We're so punitive about every little thing. Everyone must pay and they must pay now, and if we can hold 5 different groups of people liable and punish them for the same thing, even better. and now with the internet people from thousands of miles away can get in on the action. Sometimes the outcome is punishment enough I think
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:42 AM
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I don't think it's just about intent, there has to be more context.

If it was just tried over intent then anything could go. Child drinks bottle of methadone that mother leaves on counter (she wasn't under the influence at the time, she's under a well maintained programme, she went to the chemist and took a call, places the bottle down and forgets). I bet people would have a different view of that.

Father pops into a shop to buy child an ice cream and child wanders into road and is killed. I bet people have a different view on that again?

Mother forgets that she leaves her loaded gun on the kitchen table... Child picks it up and shoots self. Or sibling. Who is at fault? Nobody? It was an innocent mistake??

At some point we have to be responsible for these little people who can't be responsible for themselves. And that means NOT forgetting they're in your car/home/around dangerous stuff if you can.... Neglect is neglect. Neglect of your duties to care and be responsible for a human life.

Of COURSE mistakes happen... I'm not a judge or jury and I don't ever want to be. But weighing up accountability isn't as simple as "was there intent?". I have to weigh up neglect to children as part of my job and I assure you 99% of parents who neglect aren't really doing it on purpose..... (It's very scary when they do though). They are just not very good at taking responsibility of the life they chose to create. Should we just say "aww but you don't mean it, carry on..."?
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  #30  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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i don't claim to see things like everyone else and they may see it differently. If a mother, clean, leaves a bottle of pills on the table and her child dies. I think stupid mistake, but I have no desire to punish her anymore. I don't think it does anybody any good other than make some who have no connection feel better about themselves somehow.

Mother is shot up and strung out and child falls out open window? throw the bitch in jail. She didn't have any intent on taking care of her child.

the ice cream scenario? Punishment enough. Dad is running in to check out some strippers quick and score some blow? lock him up, he didn't intend on taking care of his child, he wanted to see some TnA and get high.

Loaded gun on kitchen table? i feel badly for the kid, but he was her kid. Punishment enough. She's watching other kids and leaves it on the table and a different child gets hurt, punish her, her kid? the loss is punishment enough for me.

Weighing intent goes far beyond, "awww, you didn't mean it"
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