Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Breeding Ground


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:35 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,977
Default

I guess for some breeds, they really do have a tough time living in today's society. Their "jobs" were very specified and the traits might not carry over very well to what we have today. But for many others, the traits that made them great 100 years ago, make them incredibly useful today as well.

Herding dogs especially. GSD's don't need a flock of animals to herd for their traits to serve society today. The same things that make them great living fences and protectors of flocks make them great companions, great sport dogs, great service dogs etc. They can do things that require them to bite, some things that don't. They can be calm, thoughtful and focused on a single person whom they are trained to be a life saver. They can be used to clear areas from bad people. They can be used to find lost people. They can bite, they don't need to bite to be happy and they can be smart enough to know when it's time and when it's not.

all the traits that made them great before make them great today. I lived in a 600 sq. foot apt with as many as 2 GSD's and 3 cats and a wife I do NOT in any way find the drive, intelligence, nerve and thresholds of a working GSD to be incompatible with life in whatever century we're in now.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-21-2014, 07:09 PM
ruffiangirl's Avatar
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CA
Posts: 1,671
Default

And do you really think that is the same drive they had 100 years ago? Look how few generations it took border collies to change from hard core working dogs to the show lines people scoff at.

And for the most part a dogs job now is pet.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-21-2014, 07:17 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,977
Default

I don't know, I didn't live 100 years ago. I do know my dogs will go all day long and still be ready for more. I would be very surprised if the drive isn't every bit as much as it was 100 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-21-2014, 07:18 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffiangirl View Post

And for the most part a dogs job now is pet.
Not in my breed.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:07 PM
stafinois's Avatar
stafinois stafinois is online now
Professional Nerd
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mayberry
Posts: 1,607
Default

There are many GSD rescues in California. Why not look there? She'll find the dog that suits her best that has been evaluated by foster homes. Win for everybody!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:14 PM
ruffiangirl's Avatar
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CA
Posts: 1,671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Not in my breed.
Thus why I didn't say every dig everywhere.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:22 PM
Oko's Avatar
Oko Oko is offline
Silence, peasants.
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 1,837
Default

I've heard this debate a lot in border collies, surprise, surprise.

Interesting thoughts on it, IMO:
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/i...howtopic=20887
__________________


Feistea, ze Blog
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:26 PM
sillysally's Avatar
sillysally sillysally is offline
Obey the Toad.
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: A hole in the bottom of the sea.
Posts: 4,970
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
I always think this idea that pet lines ruin breeds is kind of funny. I will say what I don't like is when poorly bred animals affect the breed's public image; that is unfortunate. However, the idea that pet or show lines somehow affect a breed's working population doesn't make sense to me. I get peed on by lots of nervy pet/show English Cockers at work, but that literally has no bearing on the fact the Ollie's father is out there kicking ass on pheasants. The working lines are unaffected by the show/pet dogs and readily available to those who know where to look.

What affects a breed's working population IMO is whether or not there is still a demand for them as working dogs, first and foremost. And then second, of course, is the selection pressure put on them by breeders and keepers of said working lines.

Pet lines... don't really have anything to do with that. People who want and buy pet line puppies aren't candidates for working line dogs, usually. Maybe it means they shouldn't get a GSD/Lab/APBT or whatever, but regardless or whether they do or don't, the population of WL animals isn't really affected because they were never going to get one in the first place. It was a pet bred dog or nothing. Better there be pet lines for them to seek rather than acquire an inappropriate dog or pressure WL breeders to water their dogs down.

Labrador Retrievers are insanely popular and bred as pets more often than not. If any breed has an abundance of pet lines, it's Labs. Which makes it really hard to get a good bird dog... oh wait, no, it doesn't at all. There are still extremely strong field lines in the Lab despite an abundance of pet AND show lines. Because there is a demand for field line Labs and because the breeders take great care in producing them.

I would never own a show line GSD and I can't say they're my idea of correct for the breed, but... The idea that someone else who does will somehow ruin or affect the breed's working population doesn't really make sense to me. I think the working community in the breed is best off focusing on their own backyards rather than pinning any perceived decline in the breed's working quality on people who want lazy pets. If what pet people and pet breeders do is affecting the quality of your working dogs, I'm confused as to how your breeding program is run.

Let people buy lazy pets and continue to produce working animals for people who want working animals. It's probably better that way. When a breed has no split but a growing demand for pet dogs, you see more problems than not. People are dumb, they don't care how much you tell them not to, they think they want what they want.

This is really interesting article by Retriever Man, I realize some may love or hate him but... he talks about why show lines aren't really a concern in breeds that still have strong working populations. Some breeds are basically "locked" as show lines, there are no lines outside of show lines. GSDs are not one of those breeds. http://retrieverman.net/2014/02/15/w...hanging-fruit/ I know the old quote from vom Stephanitz as well as anybody and I know they should be a working dog always, but reality... well, it can bite you on the ass sometimes. lol

All that being said, show line GSDs aren't necessarily lazy - we have a big AmLine boy whose owners got him from their son, who got rid of him when they had a baby because he was too much. No temperament issues, just too big and energetic. His current owner still finds him trying. He's actually very mild mannered, just... big and bouncy. So this woman needs to be aware that the dog is still likely going to be handful when young.
__________________

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:50 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default German Shepherd Breeders- west coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffiangirl View Post
Thus why I didn't say every dig everywhere.
Yes, but you spoke of breeds not being what they once were and how that coincides with them being pets today.

My breed is not a pet breed. It should not be and I would be equally upset if someone was encouraging pet breeding of my breed. There are many breeds that aren't good pets and to breed a pet version just so someone buying on looks can have a simple dog is silly.

There will always be pets in a more trying focused breeding, why breed for a dog that lacks the breed standard of temperament?
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:15 PM
ruffiangirl's Avatar
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CA
Posts: 1,671
Default

Breed standard for temperament for many breeds originally would not make good pets today, had they not been bred to have better temperaments they simply would have ceased to be, simply put few people now have need, and a while few more want a working temperament, it isn't what most people want. No matter weather you think people should buy dogs by their looks it will never stop them, by having some bred with pet temperaments it means fewer are abandoned in shelters. IME fewer show type Labs are abandoned to shelters then field type labs, neither are rare, you can find both at byb and reputable breeders, yet the batshit crazy go all day field bred labs tend to be abandoned more, why?

For breeds to continue being bred they either need to have a real job that is popular enough to demand their continued breeding, or they need to make reliable family pets, or they will go extinct due to low numbers.

Right or wrong it is what it is.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site