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  #31  
Old 02-21-2014, 08:56 AM
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I guess I'll just never get it. If someone doesn't want a dog with enegery, then I won't suggest any German Shepherd for them. I wouldn't suggest any herder in general.
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  #32  
Old 02-21-2014, 08:57 AM
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So, you're saying GSDs bred solely for pets aren't ruining the breed? I beg to differ.

And furthermore, I've not met a GSD that is prone to being socially weird except for.....a PET bred one. And....I think it's unfair to say that GSDs as a whole are prone to dog aggression. Maybe yours were but that doesn't mean that breed as a whole is. I know plenty who aren't...hit they're those ghastly working line dogs.

You want to promote a dog being bred for pet...that's your choice...but IMO, it's wrong. I still own the breed though, I didn't Ditch out when the going got tough like a lot of others do.
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:09 AM
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I have 2 intact males and 2 intact females all in the same house. 3 working bred GSDs and a malinois. No dog aggression issues here. And mine come to daycare too
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:16 AM
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I have 2 intact males and they get along fine. I can bring in any dog and my dogs leave them alone. Even other intact males.
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  #35  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:31 AM
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There's a working bred, actively working on the streets cop dog that trains with my club who's strange dog aggressive. lol. I don't think all GSD are DA (far from it!) but it's something I've seen in some measure from GSDs of many lines, I guess.

Hell, my Mal is asshole with other dogs although not dangerous. *shrug*
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  #36  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:17 AM
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I know people like all kinds of dogs, myself included. I figure we have dog "breeds" so we can reasonably expect certain traits to be more prevalent in those we want over others.

In the end all I really care is that people are breeding healthy dogs and finding good responsible homes. That's all that really matters I guess.

But, I'd like to think there are enough "pets" being born in this country, there really are. If someone "wants" a breed I prefer to support breeders that do more than pay lip service to a standard or those that completely disregard it. That excludes all sorts of breeders for me

I've had an extremely DA GSD, and a whole bunch that didn't really care at all about other dogs and if pushed they could get rather formidable. But they never sought it out, except one of course. I loved her, but what a PITA

Not all bred to "standard" dogs are perfect, there are always going to be variations, but the goal "should" be very similar for all breeders or a certain breed. I've certainly seen enough dogs of all sorts to know that good and bad come from all sorts of places. Reputable, byb, mill walmart parking lot.

I have also noticed that those that really breed for a standard, test and prove their dogs legitimately, often produce very good, sound healthy dogs. They know what they have, they know what they're breeding. When i look at those that say they breed to a standard, but have no idea what they're breeding, it's just a dog with a good pedigree they bought from overseas with a title and hip clearances and breed it to another dog with a good pedigree and marketing potential hoping to sell lots of puppies, well then I see dogs all over the place.

I had a guy come out to training that bought a dog for 50 **** dollars in Milwaukee. Dog came out of a newspaper ad and he went to look and the litter was driving the person so crazy he parted with this dog for 50 bucks. Just "had papers" but nothing more than BYB type shepherds in that pedigree. Dog was very good

MY BIL bought a similar byb type GSD, bat **** crazy. One of the only dogs that has made me nervous, he died at age 6, I think he was shot by his owner, though the story is he was just dead. I would have shot him, he wasn't safe at all.

My Father in law, same side thought it would be a good idea to get a GSD from the same place????? This dog is awesome. Not what I'd consider a working GSD, doesn't have the nerves or drive, but he is a great companion dog.

I think I could go to that place and find some decent dogs along with all the horrible stuff too. The question is, who am I going to support?

I guess the purist in me still hopes people that loved working and herding traits would look for working and herding dogs, and those that don't want those traits will look elsewhere or look to a good breeder striving for those qualities and is willing to wait for that puppy or dog that is lower in drive if that is what they're worried about and get that one.

At the same time, part of me says screw dog breeds and give me dog types. Life is complicated
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2014, 01:09 PM
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Personally I think we should breed ovtcharkas without guardian behaviors because looks are really the only important thing. I want my dog to look cool and act like a couch pillow.
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
So, you're saying GSDs bred solely for pets aren't ruining the breed? I beg to differ.
Can you explain how what pet or show breeders are doing is affecting working breeders or the population working bred dogs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
And furthermore, I've not met a GSD that is prone to being socially weird except for.....a PET bred one. And....I think it's unfair to say that GSDs as a whole are prone to dog aggression. Maybe yours were but that doesn't mean that breed as a whole is. I know plenty who aren't...hit they're those ghastly working line dogs.
Ghastly working bred dogs?

I guess it's great you've only met one GSD who was socially weird. I nearly got bit by a working bred, trained in IPO GSD because I sat too close to her while sharing a hotel room with her owner. My boss at the time got bit by the same dog at a show the next day because she moved her arm too quickly...or something. I also had a working bred puppy in puppy class once who was very nervy, fearful of strangers and strange things. Very poor temperament. And I know lots and lots of GSD people with all lines (yep, even working lines ) who have had issues with household SSA with their GSDs. When I was going to the Schutzhund club, they had pretty strict rules about confining dogs when another dog was being worked because...get this...these dogs are sometimes dog aggressive.

TBH You have to be one of the only people I have run into beyond clueless pet owners or people who've only been in the breed for 5 minutes who thinks GSDs aren't prone to dog aggression. IRL, the GSD people I know are pretty open about it.

There's varying degrees of dog aggression, various types of dog aggression. It's usually situational. It's not as though I'm saying GSDs are all uncontrollable monsters around other dogs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
You want to promote a dog being bred for pet...that's your choice...but IMO, it's wrong. I still own the breed though, I didn't Ditch out when the going got tough like a lot of others do.
Who ditched their dogs when the going got tough? I'm not sure I'm following you with some of the stuff you've said in this post.

I'm not really promoting anything, other than the fact that there's GSDs being bred for to be show/pet dogs. It seems pretty reasonable that someone who everyone here seems to agree shouldn't get a GSD with a working temperament should maybe look at breeders who are breeding dogs for other purposes, that have a less historically correct temperament but a more suited temperament for being a pet in the modern world. I guess I'm just crazy or something.

That isn't what I would choose for myself, I already know where my future GSD will come from and it's someone who is very serious about preserving the breed through titling, health testing and conformation ratings in the way outlined by the SV. But that's just me. That's what I would want in a GSD and GSD breeder. I'm not so self centered as to think that what I want or need should set the standard for what others want or need. People should get the dog they're going to be happy with and to anyone who thinks they know what everyone else wants or needs or should do ...well you know what they say about opinions



Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
I guess the purist in me still hopes people that loved working and herding traits would look for working and herding dogs, and those that don't want those traits will look elsewhere or look to a good breeder striving for those qualities and is willing to wait for that puppy or dog that is lower in drive if that is what they're worried about and get that one.

At the same time, part of me says screw dog breeds and give me dog types. Life is complicated
Pretty much.


I could argue from an idealistic standpoint that GSDs should only ever be bred for work and no one other than people wanting working dogs should have them. But that'd probably be a bit hypocritical and a lot unrealistic. Like it or not, GSDs popularity with the pet owning public isn't going to change. And many of those pet owners don't actually want a dog that acts like a real working GSD. But their popularity in so many roles means there's GSDs who can suit many different types of owners. I don't look at is as right or wrong, just an example of how everything changes with time, including what people want or need in a dog and dog breeds themselves. Just be glad that there's enough interest in work for GSDs to support breeding working dogs. In many lower number breeds that isn't the case because there's simply no work for the breed.

Which brings me to my favorite quote about breeds and breeding:

"Dogs also exist within the cultural and economic conditions of their time period, which is why I donít think we can recreate the St. Johnís water dog and the Irish wolfhound probably isnít the animal you want to use when you go to Alaska on a wolf hunt. The selective pressures that produced these animals disappear or are distorted once the exact conditions no longer exist.

I donít think my romance and nostalgia would ever lead me to do what Julius Wipfel and his colleagues did. After all, that project cost a lot of money and took decades to perfect.

But I canít say Iím not influenced by these same forces.

Dog people wouldnít be much without some romance and nostalgia.

Itís just got to be kept in perspective."

http://retrieverman.net/2010/05/13/t...urasian-spitz/
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  #39  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:10 PM
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IMO dogs jobs change, if they are not bred into new directions they go extinct. So if we should only breed dogs with their original function in mind should we still be facing terriers off in the ring? Should only the most DA APBT and AmStaffs be bred? But because that's not a desired trait now it's ok to breed away from it, but it's not ok to breed German Shepherds that are not driven to herd isn't ok? Because everyone has herds of ruminants for then to tend now? And for the Ovtchakas, maybe yes we should. I fear that within five years we will have a serious problem in my province with them, I have seen one place sell at least three litter on Kijiji last year...a total of 24 pups (that were advertised I don't know how many were sold before the adds went up) how many do you think went to working homes? How many are going to end up altered? How long before we have litters of them crossed with Pitbull mixes? Because that's not a recipe for disaster at all.

How few breeds would we have if they hadn't evolved through breeding to do other jobs? Even if that job is 'pet'?
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  #40  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:24 PM
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How does one have a blue, bully-style "APBT" and then suggest that buying a pet GSD is wrong?

Does not compute.
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