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Old 02-10-2014, 09:06 PM
krissy krissy is offline
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Default Does the dog meet standard?

A bit of a spin off the "is your dog typey?" thread... this is something I've been thinking about for awhile and it seems appropriate given Westminster is on now.

For your particular breed is there something in the show ring that you dislike? I don't want this to get really heated, it's just meant to be some light hearted sharing. I realize it might be difficult to do without pictures, but I think in the name of keeping this from getting heated or offensive that perhaps it is best to avoid... unless perhaps you can use pictures of dogs that are deceased or lines that are no longer active or are your own dogs?

I will preface this by saying that I know virtually nothing about conformation. I showed Kili a few times for fun last year but my opinion is based purely on my own feeling of aesthetics.

I've noticed some show greyhounds (I have basically never seen it among the racing NGA hounds) have these really exaggerated deep chests. This is a deep chested breed, obviously, however I've seen pictures of some dogs where the chest is so deep that it makes the dog look squat (the legs don't look long enough even though they are). Generally these dogs also have a very square/boxy chest and therefore a less exaggerated tuck up (standard says "chest is deep, and as wide as consistent with speed"). I also don't like when the back slopes from the shoulders to the haunches (like a GSD). I like a nice flat back or a bit of an arch (the standard says "well arched" which I don't think we see a lot of).

Anyway, I'm not posting pictures because I know nothing but what pleases my own eye. I'm just curious what others think... especially others that are as uneducated as I am. While watching dog shows what makes you just go "how does that fit in the interpretation of the standard" within your own breed(s).

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds:
Summit (BBF Dropout) - Retired from racing, not life
Kili (Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly) - Walking dreamer
Future Puppy - Coming ~2016-2017
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:37 PM
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*blackrose *blackrose is offline
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Well, I am by NO means an expert. As in, I have no show background, nor have I actually owned a well bred Labrador, but...

I hate the huge swings in the breed. Hate hate hate hate hate. And I'm going to preface to say that the dogs I have in these photos are just random google images and I have NOTHING against any of the dogs. I just...don't see why?

Like, these two dogs are both purebred black Labradors from reputable breeders:

WHY are there such extremes?

This really bothers me, and is one of the reasons I did not end up with a Labrador. I could NOT find a breeder that was producing what I think of as a well put together Labrador (type, titles, and health clearances) that was not clear across the country and I find that incredibly sad. A lot of great dogs, mind you, but...either short and stout show dogs or tall and wispy field dogs. WHY are moderate type dogs not bred for?

One of the clients at work has a pup from one of the Lab breeders I was looking at when I was considering a pup. He's a gorgeous Lab, don't get me wrong...but he is going to be HUGE. Like, Abrams huge, only wider. There is another Lab that I absolutely *drooled* over as a puppy, but he's matured into a dog BIGGER than Abrams, both in height and girth. He's probably over 100 pounds by now and is bigger than some Rotties I've seen. A well put together dog (as in, if he was about 75 pounds he'd be perfect)...but I don't think Labradors need to be in the 90 pound range, either caused by bulk or in height. Labradors are not a *giant* breed. They should not be flying past the 80 pound mark before they're 7 months old.

Like....I think these are good looking dogs:

I suppose I don't understand why that type has gone by the wayside and isn't more popular.

I could also be a fuddy duddy who just doesn't understand what a proper Lab is. But I'm happy being a fuddy duddy.
Cynder, Daddy's girl Little Lab muttly and Abrams, Momma's boy Chesapeake Bay Retriever
~*~ DOB 1/28/2006 ~*~ DOB 4/11/13 ~*~

Last edited by *blackrose; 02-10-2014 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:43 PM
AlbertaLab AlbertaLab is offline
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My two labs are not to standard, but that's ok with me. Dio is 110 lbs of muscle but is much taller than the breed allowance. His personality is 100% lab though. I love the narrower muzzles personally, which is why I go for the Field type Labs over Bench.
Dio- 4 1/2 year old black Labrador Retriever
Kaity- 4 year old chocolate Labrador Retriever mix
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:13 AM
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Paige Paige is offline
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There is nothing I find appealing about a show bred BC.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:37 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I don't like collies with very little white. A collie without white feet just looks...wrong.

I also don't like the weird, weird head shapes of Russian smooth collies. WEIRD.

I'm torn on the houndy coats of smooth collies in areas where smooths can't be bred to roughs. I like that they're tight and probably shed very little, but...the standard calls for an abundance of undercoat, and it makes their shape look strange to not have a ruff at all.

I don't like the roman nose and tiny eyes that are common on so many BYB collies.

For eye see the second picture on the top row. SO MANY collies around here look like that.

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Old 02-11-2014, 07:58 AM
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Ozfozz Ozfozz is offline
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From what I have read, (I am by no means an expert), yes my boy does meet the written standard. He's within the right height, he's structurally sound, intelligent, alert, etc.

"The Border Collie is, and should remain, a natural and unspoiled true working sheep dog whose conformation is described herein. Honorable scars and broken teeth incurred in the line of duty are acceptable."

But there seems to be massive discrepancies between the written standard and the "show" Border Collies.
Somehow the standard gets read as "Wide face and huge thick coat"

Oz, 11 year old Beagle
Cobain, 8 year old Border Collie
Rigby, unknown aged Kelpiemutt
Ruby SoHo, 2 year old Jackmongrel
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:25 AM
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MicksMom MicksMom is offline
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Breeders will say the Labs in the show ring aren't fat, so I'll leave it at over done. Sorry- they shouldn't look like whiskey barrels on legs or small, solid colored Rottweilers. I just can't picture them being able to swim and retrieve all day. I'd love to see Labs looking like the ones in the link again.

ETA- oh, and does Caleb meet the standard? Technically yes, but not enough to show in the breed ring here. At 23 1/2 inches, he's right in the middle of the height range and within the weight range of 65-80 pounds for a male (he's 75 pounds). But it took him 5 years to hit the weight, and for his coat to be right. Even if he wasn't neutered, he'd never make the cut here in the states. However, I think he'd have stood a fighting chance in the UK.
My Labrador Retriever Was Handler Impaired
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:55 AM
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Elrohwen Elrohwen is offline
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Watson is mostly to standard. His eyes are too round (generally an issue in his lines). His tail is set on a bit low, and he carries it too high when he's moving. His ears might be a bit high. His structure is good, and his side gait is lovely. His movement coming and going is ok - sometimes he is wide in front (I think this was a lameness issue, since it popped up randomly) and he gets a little close in the rear. The standard says the feet will tend to converge on a center line with increasing speed, but his converge just a bit much sometimes. He still has some filling out to do and is pretty skinny with no chest, but it's common in his mom's lines to not have a chest until 2 years. Overall he's a really nice dog, with some minor cosmetic issues of eyes, tail and ear set that are very slightly off. When he was 8 weeks, his breeder said he was one of the nicest males she had bred. He hasn't turned out exactly like she predicted, but he's a really nice dog.

I haven't been in my breed long enough to see a lot of trends. There is quite a bit of variety in Welshies though, and I know what types I like and which ones I don't. I'm not a fan of the shorter stockier dogs. Spaniels should be round, and they shouldn't be tall and skinny, but they should be athletic and a small stocky dog doesn't seem like one who can work in the fields all day. They should be longer than tall, but not long and low like a sussex spaniel or something. I also see dogs who aren't great movers and take short choppy strides. Again, for a dog who should be tireless in the field, an efficient trot is so important.

Big coats are definitely a trend. Most breeders will tell you that a Welsh shouldn't have a ton of coat and should be practical, but then judges reward coat. The number one dog right now is beautiful, but omg the coat (you can see him compete in the group at Westminster tonight). It's so long that they trim it along the bottom like an English springer, which is even against the standard (any obvious barbering is a no-no), but it gets rewarded. I showed under a breeder-judge once and he put Watson up over another dog partially because the other dog had too much coat and Watson doesn't. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of breeder-judges out there.

Watson - Ch. Truepenny Olympic Triumph RN CGC | Welsh Springer Spaniel | DOB 8.2.12
Hazel - Truepenny Bright Side of Life | Welsh Springer Spaniel | DOB 4.2.15

Last edited by Elrohwen; 02-11-2014 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:23 AM
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GatorDog GatorDog is offline
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Aiden technically does, bot does not follow the American standard as closely as the German SV. He really doesn't look like an American line GSD at all...

He does look like an exact mix of German Showline and German Working line dog to me.

West German Showline

West German Working line (Aiden's sire)

And Aiden
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:55 AM
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Beanie Beanie is online now
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Collie heads on a sheltie. I like a collie head just fine on a collie. I do not like a collie head on a sheltie. Luckily those don't tend to do very well in the ring on the whole. They are so obviously out of the standard, most judges won't put them up.

BUT the number one way to get a collie head to do well in the ring is to slap it on a heavily coated sheltie. Payton has what we say is "a lot of coat." He's nothing compared to a lot of the dogs you see in the ring. It makes it tough to be successful with a working-bred dog since the priority there is going to be working ability, structure, and temperament rather than... uh... coat. So. Yeah. You can still do it, but it's tougher these days than it was a decade ago. You have to really know your judges and know which ones respect structure over pretty fur.

Auggie - The Flash RN NAJ MXP MJP CGC
Payton - Sharp Dressed Man NA NAJ NF CGC
Dagger Baby - coming 2016
& the pest, Georgie - Peach Pudding N Pie OA AXJ
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