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  #11  
Old 12-06-2013, 12:09 AM
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stafinois stafinois is offline
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
There are tricks to make them look more extreme in the rear in stacked pictures too, although of course, the dogs have to have some length in the thigh bones to accomplish it. So again, it's nice to see the dogs standing on their own or a video or see them in person.

This. Their backs don't slope. The length of bone between the stifle and hock is crazy long. When they stand normally you don't see the slope. It's when you stack them and pull the legs out behind them. They extend out so far because of the length, which gives the illusion of a sloping back.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:42 PM
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I was looking up the breeder of my GSD that I had back in the 80's. He was more the old fashioned GSD or "old world." He had some angulation but not too much. He was fairly heavily boned, very sturdy and could run like the wind and trot for hours, lots of ground coverage with little effort. Powerful. I don't like how they're breeding them now at all....don't go for the hocks on the ground, the extreme length and the slope it makes. What happened to Rin Tin Tin?

This is derived from the breeder of my last GSD, Ajax. Von Nassau (Ann Mesdag) RIP. She was world renowned...a lot of really nice dogs. But this Shilo must have bought her Kennel or breeding business...or has her lines...something. I'm not sure if they've kept her old world standards going or not. She and her husband passed away a while back.

I think they've ruined GSDs (generally, not all) in recent times. I've seen a lot of weak looking, nervous GSDs recently.

http://shilohpedigrees.tripod.com/gesha.htm

Some other food for thought...interesting read. (part)

http://www.shawlein.com/2012/gsdca-in-trouble-part-1/
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:50 PM
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I would be more concerned about the number of vertebrae, hip and elbow health than conformation, within extremes.

Those dedicated can do great things with dogs who're less ideal in build (and temperament) so I would look at an over all as opposed to individuals.


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  #14  
Old 01-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Crazyland Crazyland is offline
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You do have more roach in the German show lines, American tend to have more slope in the rear. Show lines also tend to have less drive.
This is also discounting those direct from Germany that operate under the SV rules. I prefer the rules of the SV than those of the AKC.
I have two gsd that are working lines but follow the old German. My oldest does have a small roach back while his nephew has a straight back. There are many gimmicks that breeders throw at you to buy their pups. There are very few I actually would consider. But I am fortunate enough to be able to buy directly from Germany which opens up the available pups. My husband is German and we used to train our dogs there.
You have to look carefully for what you want, genetically, temperament, conformation, drive...
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I would be more concerned about the number of vertebrae, hip and elbow health than conformation, within extremes.

Those dedicated can do great things with dogs who're less ideal in build (and temperament) so I would look at an over all as opposed to individuals.


Are you drawn to a WGSL for a reason?
I admire GSDs, and am fascinated by the breed. I'm interested in a large (not giant), athletic, biddable, loyal, versatile, protective (but not hardcore guardian), dog that I can do activities like hiking, fetch, go to crowded places in public, dabble in agility and obedience. I have other critters so I need a dog that won't want to eat them. I don't need a dog park dog, but I do need a dog that can live peacefully with at least one other dog (probably a lab or whippet if DH has his way) and be around a number of other dogs (in public, at a dog event) without issue. I don't need crazy drive, but enough drive that the dog wants to work and finds joy in doing things with me. A former trainer of mine had a west German show line bitch that is just a fantastic dog.

The Ameican lines look unathletic to me and I'm under the impression from reading that I've done have temperament issues and structural problems. I've liked the working line GSDs that I've met, but have been told by other dog people and got the impression from reading online that working line GSDs are highly prey driven, highly protective, very sharp, have little, and are not very forgiving dogs. This may be totally untrue, but I've been told this more than once and don't want to get "too much" dog for my skill level-Sally and Jack are the only other dogs I've owned since childhood. As I've said though, the working line dogs I've seen at shows seemed like nice, stable dogs.

I do realize that I just posted a thread about cavaliers, but I like a variety of different personalities in dogs.

ETA: I do prefer the look of working line dogs, but I want to go by more than looks alone.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2014, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I've liked the working line GSDs that I've met, but have been told by other dog people and got the impression from reading online that working line GSDs are highly prey driven, highly protective, very sharp, have little, and are not very forgiving dogs. This may be totally untrue, but I've been told this more than once and don't want to get "too much" dog for my skill level-Sally and Jack are the only other dogs I've owned since childhood. As I've said though, the working line dogs I've seen at shows seemed like nice, stable dogs.

I do realize that I just posted a thread about cavaliers, but I like a variety of different personalities in dogs.

ETA: I do prefer the look of working line dogs, but I want to go by more than looks alone.
I'd have to disagree, quite a bit Some are sharp for sure, most however are not. None of mine are nor have they been. They are do everything dogs, they go everywhere and interact all the time. The majority of well bred working dogs are nothing but stable, with a few sharp ones sprinkled in. Knowing parents goes a long ways, and breeders that can place puppies with the right owners always help.

I think they are incredibly forgiving dogs. From handlers that didn't have a clue, to outright abusive type training, to kids jumping on, stepping on tails, pulling on ears etc, it's been my experience they are some of the most forgiving dogs I have seen. Not every single one, but the majority.

Of course these are dogs that have been tested, pressured and proven. not all breeders are created equal
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
I'd have to disagree, quite a bit Some are sharp for sure, most however are not. None of mine are nor have they been. They are do everything dogs, they go everywhere and interact all the time. The majority of well bred working dogs are nothing but stable, with a few sharp ones sprinkled in. Knowing parents goes a long ways, and breeders that can place puppies with the right owners always help.

I think they are incredibly forgiving dogs. From handlers that didn't have a clue, to outright abusive type training, to kids jumping on, stepping on tails, pulling on ears etc, it's been my experience they are some of the most forgiving dogs I have seen. Not every single one, but the majority.

Of course these are dogs that have been tested, pressured and proven. not all breeders are created equal
All of this ^^^^^^
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
I'd have to disagree, quite a bit Some are sharp for sure, most however are not. None of mine are nor have they been. They are do everything dogs, they go everywhere and interact all the time. The majority of well bred working dogs are nothing but stable, with a few sharp ones sprinkled in. Knowing parents goes a long ways, and breeders that can place puppies with the right owners always help.

I think they are incredibly forgiving dogs. From handlers that didn't have a clue, to outright abusive type training, to kids jumping on, stepping on tails, pulling on ears etc, it's been my experience they are some of the most forgiving dogs I have seen. Not every single one, but the majority.

Of course these are dogs that have been tested, pressured and proven. not all breeders are created equal
Will third this.

Trent's sire is apparently known for being a little sharp among the members of the club and also known to sometimes produce that trait in his offspring. Nothing extreme or unmanageable, and I do believe a certain degree of sharpness can be a great trait in a balanced dog.

High prey drive and protective instincts? Sure, but again, not to the extreme. Trent is the pet quality dog of the litter, exactly what I asked for. He's 5 years old now and if he really was the scary, sharp prey monster working lines are sometimes made out to be, I don't think 15 year old me could have handled that very well. He is incredibly, incredible forgiving and I could not even begin to count the mistakes I've made with him even if I tried. I wouldn't know where to start. But we've still developed a great relationship and work on new tricks (or refining/redoing old ones) with high enthusiasm. His ability to forgive my handling errors is probably one of the traits I am most thankful for.

Overall he is just an all around stable dog that has been an excellent pet and companion through and through (even for someone like me, who wasn't entirely prepared for a working caliber dog). Not without the challenges, but I think if the dog is stable and forgiving and driven, it can make things easier.
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2014, 03:06 AM
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Is German showline dogs = roach back german shepherd ???

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